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Christmas Light coop


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Greg,Yes the socket does pull off, but the led was carefully cut from the lense which is glued in. These C6 bulbs do not have holes in them they are solid plastic ( I cut one in half ). If I remember correctly the problem bulbs were the C7's. This bulb is from lowes.I checked the forever brights and they are just one piece.Dan

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dandeshaies wrote:

Greg,It was one piece, I cut very carefully around the base to seperate the led from the lense. Dan

Hi Dan:

I see that, but I see it has the usual mini-bulb like bulb holder that locks into the socket plug. (the little green piece on the far right of the picture). That is the piece I don't have on my LEDs.

I think I am not describing things very well. I can see how you can cut the lens off of the LED, but I can't remove the LEDS from their socket units, as they don't come with the socket plug, as I call it.

The bulb on mine goes directly into the socket assembly, and it appears as though the socket base was formed (molded) around the LED's lens, so there is not a socket retainer, which is clearly shown in the one you have pictured.

I'll try to get a picture later, whenI get more time. Hope fullyI explained it better this time.

Greg

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Greg Young wrote:

I wonder if any of the LEDsyou, or Dan have are from AL, or are they the garden variety sort from Target/Lowe's etc?

I actually don't own any ForeverBright, but I've seen them in stores. The ones I've seen have non-removable bulbs as you mentioned, but I can see a flicker in them. I'm told some people see it and others don't (I also see a color flicker in DLP video projectors, for what it's worth). From what I understand the ones AL sells are the same that used to be branded "ForeverBright".

Some LED strings do have a rectifier in them to eliminate the flicker, but the're still wired in series w/ no resistor on each bulb. Maybe some have resistors too, but none that I'm aware of.

That's all I know...

-Tim

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Greg Young wrote:

dandeshaies wrote:

Hi Dan:

I see that, but I see it has the usual mini-bulb like bulb holder that locks into the socket plug. (the little green piece on the far right of the picture). That is the piece I don't have on my LEDs.

I think I am not describing things very well. I can see how you can cut the lens off of the LED, but I can't remove the LEDS from their socket units, as they don't come with the socket plug, as I call it.

The bulb on mine goes directly into the socket assembly, and it appears as though the socket base was formed (molded) around the LED's lens, so there is not a socket retainer, which is clearly shown in the one you have pictured.

I'll try to get a picture later, whenI get more time. Hope fullyI explained it better this time.

Greg

All,

I bought about 8000 forever bright LED strings this year from both Lowes and Meanards in the blue boxes. I am sure most of you saw the display packaging in the stores where they had a little button and the LEDs on them that would light up on the display when you pushed the button.

Well, I wanted to do some investigating so I conveniently used the display cardboard with the lights on front as my carrying unit that I could carry all the boxes out of the store without having to use bags.

anyway I got several of these and so far am working on tearing apart one of the LEDs to see if I can see exactly whats in them. The ones I have been working on is the ones that look like the mini lights. They are truly all one piece molded together over the LED. Well so far I have not been able to open up the wire end and I have nat sawed through them yet. The lens end I have made some progress on but its still really hard. I finally was able to break off the mini light lens to see the expoxy of the LED itself. I have been trying to chip away at the outer green plastic that you think of as the socket. So far I have revealed a little more and here is what I have found. The LED leads have been molded into the plastic all the way up to the bottom of the LED and there is no movement or break between the LED and the "socket".

I will keep trying to chip away at the casing to see whats actually inside and will let everyone know if there is anything in the LED socket other then the leads. Its also intersting to note that the LEDS taht are in the display case were powered by 4 AA batteries in series giving 6 volts and their were six LEDs and they had what looks like very small speaker wire coming out of each one instead of the green wire you see on the actaul strands. All the LEDs are wired in parrallel which would indicate that there has to be a limiting resistor in the assemblies (LED socket and lens) otherwise the LEDs would become DEDs.

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OK I finally decided to just cut through the first one instead of trying to break or shave it apart. Guess what. There is a tiny 1/8th W resistor attached to one of the LED leads. I just happen to cut right through the resistor.

The resistor wont have anything to do with any perceivable flicker of the LED, the resistors only purpose is to limit the current flowing through the LED to a linear model instead of the exponential model a LED will have without the resistor. Without the resistor in them the LEDs are VERY susceptible to different voltages.

So at least for me I feel more comfortable with the blue box forever bright LEDs as far as their longevity is concerned. The lenses are sealed, the sockets include a built in limiting resistor, and the sockets are molded around the LED, leads, resistor and wires to pretty much eliminate any chance of water just seeping in and shorting them out producing the DEDs...

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dearvbguru wrote:

OK I finally decided to just cut through the first one instead of trying to break or shave it apart. Guess what. There is a tiny 1/8th W resistor attached to one of the LED leads. I just happen to cut right through the resistor.

The resistor wont have anything to do with any perceivable flicker of the LED, the resistors only purpose is to limit the current flowing through the LED to a linear model instead of the exponential model a LED will have without the resistor. Without the resistor in them the LEDs are VERY susceptible to different voltages.

So at least for me I feel more comfortable with the blue box forever bright LEDs as far as their longevity is concerned. The lenses are sealed, the sockets include a built in limiting resistor, and the sockets are molded around the LED, leads, resistor and wires to pretty much eliminate any chance of water just seeping in and shorting them out producing the DEDs...

That is exactly what I expected I would find.

Looking at the sockets, it looks like they were designed for individual drop resistors based on their conformation. That also explains why everything is sealed together in one solid piece.

Thanks for sacrificing your string for scientific validation!

This confirms the quality (and hopefully the longevity) of this brand of lights! It also explains why the flickering that sometimes occur in some strings is minimized.

Obviously rectification will eliminate flicker, which is not the case here, but the voltage drop resistors also limit it, to the point I can't see any at all, on my red C6 strings.!

Thanks very much!!

Greg

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Greg Young wrote:

dearvbguru wrote:

That is exactly what I expected I would find.

Looking at the sockets, it looks like they were designed for individual drop resistors based on their conformation. That also explains why everything is sealed together in one solid piece.

Thanks for sacrificing your string for scientific validation!

This confirms the quality (and hopefully the longevity) of this brand of lights! It also explains why the flickering that sometimes occur in some strings is minimized.

Obviously rectification will eliminate flicker, which is not the case here, but the voltage drop resistors also limit it, to the point I can't see any at all, on my red C6 strings.!

Thanks very much!!

Greg

Greg,

I reviewed my post and yours and Irealized that I said something wrong. What I meant to say is that the resistor itself wont eliminateandis not there to reduce the flickering as its primary purpose. It will reduce the brightness intensity changes as a side effect of limiting the current because of the linear model of the resistor. It wont allow the exponential model of the LED to control the current and subsequent brightness intensity changes which is probably what people are seeing as a flicker.

Also with these strands, if you just plug them in and look at them then I agree I dont see any noticeable flicker. However, place your hand spread out in between your eyes and the string and move the string back and forth and you will notice almost a strobe light effect which I did not see when doing the same thing with a regular strand of minis. This is probably just do to the half wave rectification so the moral of the story here is dont put the LED strings on something moving back and forth unless you want to cause motion sickness... :waycool:

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Thanks for the info dearvbguru.

I use mine of my 18 ft tall megatree, (64 LOR channels) and they work beautifully, including their fades. No flickering noticed at all, but the strings don't move either!

I shot some nice video of same. Perhaps I'll submit it in next year's Holiday Lights DVD. This year is basically full with 40 submissions, and I need to get back to editing them...

Greg.

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We are just getting started on our first"real" display (animation, LOR). We purchased some more minis on sale and already had quite a few, but were considering starting to get LED's instead for the power savings. If you find a bulk ordering source for good quality LED's, I'd be interested in purchasing some!

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Guest Scot Meyers

WOW!!

this has been a very educating thread...

Thanks Tim,Greg and DAn for the info Can someone post pis of the LED and resistors I would like to see this as I have not purchased any LED's yet.

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Scot Meyers wrote:

WOW!!

this has been a very educating thread...

Thanks Tim,Greg and DAn for the info Can someone post pis of the LED and resistors I would like to see this as I have not purchased any LED's yet.

I will see what I can do about a picture of the LED, I will try cutting another one open a little cleaner this time to get a better picture. The problem with the LED lights I have talked about is that the plastic is solid and molded around the entire assembly. If I can get a clean cut through the base I can show you the cross section where you can see that I have cut through the resistor on one side and the wire lead on the other and then I can break off the lens to show the actual top of the LED.

Does anyone know what might dissolve the plastic so that I could show the inner workings. I know that whatever will dissove the plastic base will also probably dissolve the epoxy that acts as the lens of the LED itself but thats OK.

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Hello,

A couple of quick thoughts on LED's ,as well as other Chinese products. If you desire to direct import there are several ways to find out which company to use. Check the UL, CSA, SASHO number and they(UL) will give you the original manufacturers name,address etc. Contact them by email and ask for catalogs, MOQ, samples etc. If you are concerned about quality control, there are agents to handle these things. They charge about 2-3% of product cost.

There are many different brands of LED's but you will find most sold in the US come from a handful of manufacturers. They are then "private labeled" to make it appear as if they are made for a specific company. If you buy 5000 pieces the Chinese will design the packaging with your "brand name" on it. The Chinese have no problem breaking exclusive contracts. You can buy from the same manufacturers that produce products for Wal-Mart, QVC, GKI etc. The Chinese prefer to deal with smaller companies, as they have great fear of the Target and Wal-Mart folks. The company Shen-Tai in Shenzhen, China had over 40,000 employees last year. Shen-Tai kept ramping up production for Wal-Mart. They produced portable pools, lawn furniture and Christmas products that were in Sam's Club. The price of raw materials rose dramatically over the past year and Wal-Mart refused to agree to any price increases. Shen-Tai was unable to replace the contracts and is now closed. Wal-Mart is now pressuring the Chinese government to allow them to open their own super factories, in direct competion with their former suppliers.

The Chinese are building the largest LED factory in the world in Shenzhen. This multi-billion dollar factory will be the main engine for LED production in China. This bodes well for the Christmas light fanatic. The LED's used in Christmas lights are mainly rejects that can not be used in more expensive applications like stop lights. The new factory will lead to economies of scale,as well as more rejects with the end result being lower prices.

People often ask why white LED's cost more than red or amber. Red and amber LED's occur naturally. Nicchi of Japan devolped patented methods for infusing different gases to produce colors. The royalities paid for use of their patents is what determines cost. The price order is red,amber,green,blue,bluish white,and the most expensive,pure white.

I apologize for the long reply,but it has been awhile since I have posted.It was a long season. I hope this helps and I am sure others can share their experiences.

Regards,

Bob

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