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fake security, trouble already...


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So i was sitting across the street with my paper and pen taking notes on changes that need to be done to the show and a car comes zooming by, squeels to a stop, and a teenager gets out of the car and literally SPRINTS up to our 5 foot JOY (see on the website). at this point, my dad and I were both out of the door and I'm already furious. he starts to reach out to the JOY, and we both yell, "HEY! WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOIN?!" He spun around, and at this point the white cavaliar(sp) and squeeled off down the street, and he was left do defend himself.

We asked what he was doing and he gave us bull basically. My dad gave me the, "lets scare the crap outa him" look. We started telling him we had 4 security cameras around the house working 24/7(started looking at the house for the cameras) and about 25,000 watts of power in the yard (he looked down at his feet and noticed he was on wires-then jumped off). After we scared him, we told him what radio station to listen to and to watch the lights for a bit.

anyways, on with the point. I got thinking about the video cameras, and found some really good dummy ones on ebay that will for sure scare the bageebers out of anyone. I bought 4 of these. hopefully they work. i don't want any trouble....i mean-we havn't even opened and they were already tryin to vandalize!!!

i will see how these work, and then either reccomend, or not reccomend them to you.

they have a blinking red light that starts when the camera detects motion. the head also moves back and forth.

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Why can't some people just leave things alone! Espeially a beautiful Christmas display. If I ever catch anyone messing up my display bad things are going to happen......Were doing these displays for them, what are they thinking.

I bet the guy has a girlfriend named Joy and was going to steal it to show what a big man he was.:laughing: I hope you got his name, number, address, etc. I think I would have call the cops and nailed him for tresspassing at least.

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got his licence plate number and car details. We told him, "if ANYTHING happens to this display, we going to you first." :laughing:

He couldn't even it the joy in the car, my stuff's too big, he's too small. haha...you should have seen the look on his face!

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I had a for sale sign in my yard that someone kept throwing rocks through in the late night/early morning. I set out the video camera all night and got up at 0500 to keep an eye on it. Finally, as 2 kids walked by on their way to the bus stop, one said "hey look, they replaced it!" I was on them so fast (from my hiding spot in the flowerbed). After quite the lecture, they were off, still denying their involvement.

Looking back, I wish I would have walked them back to their house and talked to the parents. Funny enough, one of them came by a few days later with hisparents to our yard sale. There was no mention of me lecturing him about something he said he knew nothing about. Yeah, right. Some kids have no respect or shame anymore. Its sad. Oh, and the sign stayed untouched afterwords.

Good luck. I'm interested to know how the cameras work out.

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I've dealt with many vandils in my 15 year life lol. I've learned a few tricks of the trade. I had on camera, but it stoped working. hopefully these stay working. Thanks for sharing!

btw- these cameras can be found on ebay

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Iremember the year we switched to the stay-lit lights. Kids would always pull bulbs out of the white pine roping on our picket fence. When i took that down that season, there were over 20 bulbs missing but the lights were still working. That must of confused those kids. I always use staylits now in places thatare in reach of people.

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tfischer wrote:

I would have called the police, while he waited.

No excuse for that kind of crap.

-Tim

I'm with Tim too -- The police would have been called. While waiting for them, I would have discussed this persons choice in 'friends'.

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Tell us more about these dummy cameras, they looks nice. How much were they and where do you get them?

One thing you have to remember is you can threaten these kids, teenagers or whoever it is that vandlizes your displays. The thing you have to remember though is these kids these days are smarter and I know from experiance and having a brother and several friends as cops that unless you or someone else witness the crime in progress then their is nothing you can do. Even if you tell them "Hey if anything happens I will come after you first". Most kids these days are hip to the laws and know that if you don't see them, you can't do anything and will problem laugh at you or play dumb. I have had my brother as a cop use scare techniques on High School and Middle School kids to get certain information and what not and he has had them laugh at him and start spitting out laws and walk away. So just remember these guys might play dumb so it is better to just not tick anyone off and mind ya own business sometimes. I had to learn this the hard way and as soon as I did my displays stopped getting messed with.

I live on this man residential street that the Middle School is on and the kids from the school walk right down my sidewalk everyday. I had some punk kids pulling the lights out of my candy cane lights. So I decided one day to hide in the bushes with a pellet gun. So when I noticed one of them messing with the lights on MY property mind you I pulled this pellet gun on them to scare them. Needless to say they went home and told their parents. To make a long story short, Cops show up at my house and I could have been charged with assult even though they where vandlizing my property because that is a higher charge. Even though I didn't touch them the meaning assult in the eyes of the law is as long as you feel threatened it can be considered assult. So keep that in mind also when you try scaring these kids because now days you can get nailed with terroristic threats very easily for the smallest thing. Ever since that day for the next 2 seasons I had people several times in the month completely drive through my yard and drag half my display down the street. It was then I took a few years off. I guess those people have moved on or off but since I have not had any problems and just kept to myself. I have found IMO that just placing out signs that have light on them during the entire night even when your display is off that states "This property is is under 24 hr surveillance by cameras and police and we prosecute vandals" That has seemed to keep people away up to this point. Also when the timers clicks off the display for the night the landscape lights around the flowerbeds come on and the motion sensor becomes hot so any motion in the yard floodlights come on.

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Texan78 wrote:

The thing you have to remember though is these kids these days are smarter and I know from experiance and having a brother and several friends as cops that unless you or someone else witness the crime in progress then their is nothing you can do.

I have found IMO that just placing out signs that have light on them during the entire night even when your display is off that states "This property is is under 24 hr surveillance by cameras and police and we prosecute vandals" That has seemed to keep people away up to this point. Also when the timers clicks off the display for the night the landscape lights around the flowerbeds come on and the motion sensor becomes hot so any motion in the yard floodlights come on.

To your first point: while it is true that you have to witness the crime, it is also true that if you tell the police you had those kids in your yard before they will go to them first. I would have made a police report on the incident, and phoned the parents.

A few things that do work:

1. Motion activated flood lights. I have mine on an LOR channel, so they stay off during the sequences and then come on during all the other times (if someone breaks the plane of the sensor, that is).

2. The cameras work well too, whether they are dummies, non-recording units, or real cameras.

3. Signs, signs, signs! I have three of each: "Danger: High Voltage at All Times!" and "Smile! You're on Camera. Area Under 24 Hour Surveillance" around the parimeter. I also have my lighted box security sign (which has motion floods mounted on the back):

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4. The best thing you can do is talk to your neighbors and the police officers that patrol your neighborhood. I leave a Thermos of hot coffee in the mailbox every night and the three patroling officers stop by, fill up their cups, and stick around for a few minutes. Thathappens all night long, so I would say that every 45 minutes of so there is a police car in front of the house. That is a great thing to preventing vandalism.

Just a few thoughts. Bottom line is, you should think about security just as much as you do your blowmolds, inflatables, lights, wireframes, etc. We all put too much time and money into this hobby to let some punks tear it down.

Ryan

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If it's after dark, anyone vandalizing or stealing my stuff is going to be shot without prior warning. Then their estate (or their parents) will be sued for the damage,the cost of whatever ammunition I had to use and any biohazard cleanup I have to pay for. I'm completely serious. Don't mess with Texas.

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Thats what I like about GA.

With our recent copy of TX's law, we have the right to shoot any one on the property who is tresspassing.

If anyone tried to mess with my display (and belive me, I have had some AWFUL neighbors who have grown sons (mid 20's) who never have grown up. They have done things to my display before (my lights in my light tree were pulled out obvious by a human and the had a party the night before). They did anything, I would just bring my hunting rifle out and talk a little "sense" and educate the new law to them.

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With our recent copy of TX's law, we have the right to shoot any one on the property who is tresspassing.

Be careful here. Mere trespassing on land isn't a "killin' offense" (i.e., you cannot shoot someone for trespassing). They have to be trying to enter your home or occupied vehicle. The recent changes to the law only removed your duty to retreat - now you can stand your ground in your home or car.

Theft or criminal mischief (vandalism)at night are justification for the use of deadly force. Night is 30 minutes after sunset to 30 minutes before sunrise.

Bottom line is: Someone simply in your yard - no shooting. It's nighttime and someone is trashing or stealing your display - lock and load.

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Not exatly, you can shot them as long as their is no intent to kill them. Like don't take a head shot or chest shot, etc. Leagally you can shoot for the legs, knees, etc. You also need to give them a verbal warning and ask them to leave and give them time to leave. I would suggest at least 3 warnings. If they do not vacant your property and continue to stay on it and keep coming you can legally say you feel threatened which is considered assult and then you can shoot away as long as their is no intent to kill.

This is all a little extreme though and I wouldn't suggest these kinds of actions to be taken. I would call the cops then if you want to hold them at bay you can. Just remember though if they want to leave after you have called the cops you have to let them go because it is illegal to keep someone agaisnt their will regardless if they have commented a crime or not. Vandalizing a display is a civil offense and while a ticket can be issued most of the time police can really do noting unless it has been witnessed and if it has then you will have to sort it out in courts. Event though we have spent hundreds of dollars on our displays. It is better to just mind your own business and not try to instigate things with neighborhood kids and teens. The best thing would be to do what I suggested in a eariler and was also noted after me and just take on precautions like signs, cameras, motion dectected lighting. Most of the time that is all you need and you really shouldn't have problems. Even contact the local patrol beat in your neighborhood and have them keep an eye out. Shooting someone though is just asking for more headaches and legal litigation then is worth it.

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Vandalism is most certainly not a civil offense. It is a criminal offense.

You can use force or deadly force to prevent vandalism or theft during the nighttime. You can also use force or deadly force to prevent someone from fleeing with stolen property.

As a side note: any use of a firearm is consideredusing "deadly force" whether or not your intention was to kill and whether or not someone is killed.

Confinement is justified if force is justified, as long as the confinement ends when it is safe to end it. It would be easy to argue that you didn't feel safe releasing the vandal/thief until the police arrived.

In addition, vandalism could easily be argued to be a "breach of the peace", one of the offenses that justify a citizen's arrest. In this case you can hold the person until the police arrive.

This is all in Texas. YMMV.

As it is, I'm just going to wire up motion detectors and load the shotgun with 2 rounds of rubber pellets followed by two rounds of 00 buckshot. Hopefully I'll never need get to rounds 3 & 4.

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You might want to call your local local police to get clarification and if your have CHL you would have learned all of this. Having a borther as a cop, neighbor being a attorney and being a CHL holder and gone through this before I have learned this first hand. In the state of Texas Vandalism falls under the Civil Stat. Art. 6370d et seq. Which is consdiered a Class B misdemeanor unless bodily injury, which is a 3rd degree felony. Obstruction or cause of derailment ranges from Class C misdemeanor to 1st degree felony, depending on severity. So even though Vandalism is criminal mischief, act of Vandalism is a ticket and we will see you in court kind of offense. Unless the damage totals up to $1,500 then it becomes a felony. Nothing more, nothing less police can do you will still have a date in court because the State will not pick up charges of Vandalism is criminal mischief on a misdemeanor which makes all this a civil matter between those accused and the victum of the vandalism. You can not hold anyone aganist thier will for a misdemeanor. If you a suspect does flee a scene of a crime then additional charges can be filed. Not all States is Vandalism considiered a civil offense. I wouldn't warrent shooting anyone without at least giving verbal warning or if I feel threatened. Deadly force is just a term used for the level of force which was used and is inherently likely to cause death or great bodily injury. So if you shoot below the stomach perferably the knees your actions can be justified especially if you have given the suspect verbal warnings. Not trying to start a flame or anything, just trying to give you and everyone heads up. Just check your local laws on vandalism as it is different from state to state. I just know this is how it is in Texas.

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I guess the gist of what I was saying is that since vandalism is criminal mischief, it is one of the things you can use deadly force to stop. Whether it is also a breach of peace is up for debate, but if it is a breach of peace, you can arrest for it even though it's a misdemeanor. I'd submit that vandalism is a breach of peace, as its natural consequence is to provoke others to violence (i.e., anger the property owner).

All that said, I agree that verbal warning (accompanied by the sound of a shotgun racking) is the right way to go.

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