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transmitter group buy for PC members


taybrynn

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taybrynn wrote:

More information about the LCD, for those interested:

http://part15.us/node/993

First off, I am not saying the EDM are a bad product. If you have read carefully ( and I have gone back and re read all my posts on this thread) I have neverstated any negative remoarks aboutthe product..

Second...Also nothing personal about you as you seem to be a good guy....But I amraising questions aboutyour marketing technique and intentions from not only your posts here but a few other forums on the same "glorification" of a product you have never used, assemebled or tested......IMHO, and this is MY opinion, something is clearly "not good in Denmark here."

Group Buy?? Umm don't think so.. An example of a"group buy" would be as follows:

Asmall group of us in my areaare looking at a "group buy" of cable from "vendor X" soon. They are giving us price breaks at certain dollar ammount level triggers. The more we buy the better the breaks. Our ability of adding all our orders into one is making our buying power much better..That's a GROUP BUY!" Not 10 at a time..

I guess this no longer appliessince a "deal" has beenstruck with the vendor already....I would have recomended toGet a group interested PC'erstogether for a bulk number of units then work with said company for a BULK buy. In all my years of working with vendors/ manuafactuers and Rep firms with mobile Electronics, I have never found one yet that did not give a better discount if you bought 100 pieces vs 10!

Nothing personal in this question, but have you ever dealt with Big company's and purchasing on a mass scale before??? I have, and the first questionbefore placing an order "was where was my breaks, then the second was "what are theterms"....My vendors loved me but hated me..( I left thatline of business because of massive burnout)

*There has been way too much fraud from South Africa regions. I know this personally as my step daughter fell victim to itrecently.Yep she fell hook line and sinker cost her a $3000 laptop. There was a piece done on one of the network news shows I caught on nightwhere they went to SA and tracked some of the "scam"guys down..funny how they ran when they found out they were being taped while trying to scam the reporter!!!..So SA reputation isn't the best in the world. Nothing against SA, but a few bad apples mess it up for everyone as usual

Intersting enoughyou just postedthe website above that has information of contradicts itself!

The first web link from the site above does areveiw of the product,In their opinionsseemed pretty favorable.. But I did see there WAS a reason mentionedfor that metal casing on the EDM as stated in the reveiw "leakage".., but overall a seemed to be good product.....

BUT the second link was the kicker as it stated as quoted below:

August 31, 2006 - 02:40 — kc8gpd

picture-13.jpg

FM Transmitters "MUST" be

FM Transmitters "MUST" be FCC Certified for part 15 use. especially in this climate. none of the EDM stuff carries a FCC ID and is not certified.

buy and run at your own risk.

Best Try these if you want the absolute best and still be certified...

Landmark FM (FCC Accepted) (choice of inputs from balanced to unbalanced to USB)

http://www.landmarkfm.com/others.htm

Decade MS-100 (more expensive than landmark and no balanced input option)

http://www.decade.ca/MS-100.html

Thank You,

Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis

Universal Life Ministries

http://www.ulc.org

Moderator Hunterdonfree

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hunterdonfree

I know this is somewhat dated material but I did go to EDM;s website to find a FCC Certification....I didn't see one.

Being Fair here,I did hunt through my Ramsey FM25B Manual to see if it had a FCC certification listed.. and I did not see a certification reference listed, BUT I will email them for that info and gladly post the results.

As listed from that site there seems to be many more that are FCC certified units. I would probabaly have toa guessthat the other model ( sorry can't remember the Manufactuer or the full posters name , but the vendor name was simular to my 9mm)) mentions is also. BUT in the Ramsey manual they did layout everything you need to know about FCC rule 15 and how it pertains to LPFM TX's. Their explanation is put into undestandable language and how to advoid possible issues with our friendly FCC...

Now with all this said, If PC wants to kick me, Ban me, Honestly, I do not care as I am sure others had an uneasyfeeling in this thread. I am just not afraid to voice my opinion.

I am thankful to PC asI got all the info I neededto get me started. I just needed a few points in the right direction of where to aquire products to do something I have always wanted to do for a LONG time, and now Financially able to do it..If I have offended someone, My deepest appologies, but the direction of thecomments from this thread has been giving me the "hebie jebies", had to voice my opinion, especially to someinformation that was not acurrate, and that gut feeling about SA...

I am off my soap box now.

William

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"glorification" of a product you have never used, assemebled or tested

Well, I've used it and assembled it and am in the process of testing it. And its all really good so far. I don't know what your talking about in the above quote.

I would say your comments would be best made in a PM, not in this thread. I don't find that the spirit of Christmas comes across in your posts. I promise to behave myself here, but I don't think your comments are truly appropriate here.

None of the Ramsey units carry a FCC certification either. And even using a transmitter with FCC certification, your in violation if you exceed 200', which is pretty common. So the key is to operate these transmitters in accordance with the FCC Part 15 rules, whether you own a FCC certified unit or not. Both of the EDM models in this sale offer different power levels to help make compliance easier to achieve.

You obviously have 'your own definition' of what a group buy is and should be and apparently, this doesn't fit the bill. Sorry. I noticed that Pauls LED group buy (great, by the way) doesn't get any cheaper when you buy more either. So is it really a group buy according to your definition?

Do me a favor and either PM me (from now on) or post your own thread where you can say when you want aboutme, EDMor your feelings aboutS. Africa companies being crooks. I know for a fact that EDM is good company and take offense that anything otherwise was infered. PLease join the EDM yahoo group and discuss anything you want with the experts there ... I am pretty familier with the products, but not an expert.

I would be ok if the moderator stepped in here and just deleted these non-relevant posts, including my own. This thread is supposed to be about a product and a sale and posts related to those products and this sale.

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OK, Children...Everyone settle down.

I think MonkeyBoy was just looking out for everyone's best interest. Perhaps his post was poorly worded but I don't think he meant any harm.

It's true that there are a lot of scams out there and I think he was just trying to be helpful.

Be nice. :)

Edit: When I said "Children" you were supposed to hear it as enunciated by Chef in South Park. I didn't mean you were "children."

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For what it is worth...

I feel like I should address a few things that have been posted.

The "group buy" suggestion is something that I had posted we might look into.

taybrynn was nice enough to keep the ball rolling since he had already contacted the company to order his unit and was a member on thier support forum.

The term "group buy" is what is hanging folks up... let's call it a PC member discount if that fits better.

This arrangement keeps one person from taking financial responsibilty to get everyone's money and ship and so on. No deadlines. It is just a discount and you don't have to wait for months to get your unit.

The $8.50 shipping is because they have a warehouse in California from what I understand so that you get the product quickly and they aren't shipping a bunch of packages overseas one at a time. (smart buisness)

If you want a 50 or 100 peice price break contact them and I am sure they will work something out if that is your interest and you have the funds. (I can't use more than a couple myself!) ;)

FCC listed... in order to be FCC listed a product would have to be a fully assembled and tested product ready for the end user's application... this is why "kits" are not FCC listed (not that it all means much since the actual end user determines FCC part 15 compliant use)

If you feel funny about the money and where it is going, use Paypal and fund it with your charge card so you can reverse charges through paypal if you get "scammed" (I don't think you will... they have been around awhile)

Most of all buy what you want... this is simply a nice gesture, and was the result of one of our PC members contacting the manufacturer to save a couple of bucks IF you want one of these. Thank you taybrynn!

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First, I would like to thank Terry for his sage advice and comments. I really needed some Christmas spirit last night and he delivered!!

The reality is that the gentleman who wrote the part15 (board) remarks quoted by mnkyboy is not particularly credible. But that said, I understand that mnkyboy is looking out for other members here and means well ... and in fact I owe him dearly for posting the corrent link during the LOR secret sale recently.

I will refer to the gentlemanposting the information in part15 post as 'he' in my following comments.

'He' was actuallynotified by the FCC for running his unit illegally and he stated himself that he didn't really know what he was doing (at the time). I'd bet he has learned a valuable lesson by now. See link below.

http://lists.radiolists.net/pipermail/broadcast/2006-February/025686.html

He later admittedin the radio-info post (below)[ reply #5 ] the the EDM LED works about as well as a Ramsey FM100b here [ reply #7], after first accusing EDM of crappy support [ reply #3 ], which he later says sorry about when he realized his spam filter (ISP) was filtering out the response emails from EDM. EDM later gave him a new transmitter ... and he later operated it in violation of Part15, apparently by accident.

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,13713.0.html

So the short version is that this person isn't particularly credible, given his own track record, but he does has a valuable lesson to teach all of us ... and its the lesson he learned the hard way.

Of course he wants us all to know that we need to operate our transmitters within the FCC Part15 guidelines! ... because he got busted himself. But really, we should all abide by the rules of our home countries.We should all learn from this, that isone positive aspect of this story.

Anothergood part is that most people doing LOR shows don't need to transmit very far, because if you can't see the house (and lights), you probably don't need to sound either ... so transmitting for 4 blocks isn't ever a need for us.

If you read my original post in this sale thread, you will see that I said that we must all operate our transmitters responsibly and according the the FCC Part15 rules.

It is up to YOU to make sure you are transmitting in compliance with FCC Part 15 regulations.

You canoperate illegally with a FCC approvedunit or a legally with non-FCC approved unit. It is up to us to do our best to comply ... and probably the simplest advise I could give is to consider the following6 things. I'm sure there are more tips, but here are my own:

(1) Always use a vacant (unused) radio frequency, ideally with 1 or 2 free frequencies on either side.Use this site to get some ideas of where to start for your area:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/vacant

... just enter your zipcode and state, then click "go".

(2) Always use the lowest power setting that works for you. If you have a variable power transmitter, you can lower the power down till you get the bare minimum range for your needs.

(3) Only use an antenna if the included antenna doesn't work well enough (aka whip antenna)

(4) If your stilltransmitting too far, set the antenna to be parallel with ground -- this will reduce transmission distance a lot, or use a less efficient antenna and/or location.

(5) Make sure you are not causing any unintended interference with anyone in your neighborhood ... this usually means asking them about any strange behavior in radio or cable reception while your transmitter is being operated.

(6) Do not operate the transmitter when you don't need to. This means, don't leave it on 24x7. You should ideally always be home when operating the transmitter.

Remember, both EDM and RAMSEY units are not FCC certified, but all can be operated within Part15 guidelines, if you are smart about it and take these precautions at a minimum.

FCC certification is not a requirement for compliance, nor does an FCC certified unit always operate in a compliant manner. For example, I had the Panaxis ACC100s transmitter. It was certainly FCC compliant out of the best andusing the test antenna (little piece of wire it comes with). But if I hooked it up to a Ramsey TM100 antenna and increased the range to .5 mile ... then I would be in violation of Part15. But If I adjusted the antenna in a such a way that it reduced the range to 200' ... then I would perhaps be in compliance again. In it our responsibility to do our best to comply and make adjustments if thats not the case.

So hopefully, this helps folks realize some of complex issues surrounding the operation of these transmitters, of ANY brand.

EDM has tried hard to make their transmitters as compliant to operate as possible, by offering power switches and variable power operation on some models. Using the included antenna is also a good idea. Adjusting the power and/or antenna to make yourself compliant, even better.

As Terry already pointed out, paying by paypal is the best way to protect yourself from any form of internet fraud. I have bought an item before that was never delivered, and after following the paypal appeal rules ... I got my money back.

EDM has been selling transmitters for 6 years and is a reputable company that puts the customer first. They have a 2 year warranty on their products and really hope to 'earn' your business. This sale is just one way they are doing that.

Cheers --

Scott

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I would like to say that I do have quite a bit of respect for taybrynn!!!

He stepped up looked a the big picture and things were being presented, and made corrections and really detailed explanations! It is something I rarely see in forums anywhere..

He was able to take my critisizms with respect, cipher them, and really clear the air! That takes quite a set of you know whats!

In the last taybrynn post dug deep and researched more and we all found that the user was actually an unhappy camper, but seemed to get everything resolved. Thank you for all the words of wisdom to keep "big brother" away from our nice lighted toys!!.Big Kudos Taybrynn!

IMHO many things have been cleared up and we know where everyone stands now..

I only have one more note to add. I use Paypal myself!. My stepdaughters laptop that I mentioned, that was "scammed"by someone inSA was processed thru Paypal. The "scammers" waited until the unit made it most of the way to SA then withdrew the payment!! ButPaypal refused to do anything about the transaction since it was to SA and we should have known the risks,by thenthere was no way to have the packaged stopped either. It eventuallythough it showed delivery!!.. She learned $3000 lesson.

As I said earlier, I have nonthing Against the People of SA, just the few "bad apples that have been messing things up for everyone else"..

William

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Thanks for the kind words. All is well in the PC universe again :P... and I believe I've made some new friends ... which is always good!

We all learn from each other and thats the beauty of Planet Christmas.

Back to the sale (so to reiterate the main reason for this thread).

The jist of this sale is that if your in the market for good quality fm transmitter for your LOR show, then this is a chance to save 10% off the normal prices.To get this 10% discount, we are buying in batches of 10 at a time and EDM is giving us the discount without the normal 'group buy' hassles, which I think is really nice of them. I realize this is a different kind of group buy-- maybe better termed a bulk buying discount. The hardest part is having the patience for the 10 order thing. Use paypal and a credit card as Terry said to maximize your security and comfort level.

Saving money is something most of us can agree on. So if your interested, this is the offer:

[align=center]** see the top of page 1 for full details ** [/align]

[align=center]http://planetchristmas.mywowbb.com/forum57/22413-1.html

EDMPCbulksale1.jpg

[/align]

[align=center]EDMbothedit1-1.jpg[/align]

[align=center]

To obtain the special PC Ordering Page link, please send me a quick PM ... you don't need to say much (hi!)... but if your interested in one unit in particular, you could mention that ... just so I know where the interest is. Virtually every PC member qualifies unless you just joined in the last week.[/align]

[align=center]edmvalidatedbyme1.jpg[/align]

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Let me add that when using the link mentioned above to find vacant frequencies ... is it quite common to find that there are none in your zipcode + state.

If that is the case, then usually I make a list of the ones shown in the 'GREAT' or 'GOOD' category ... and then try them out locally to see which one is truly the clearest.

So for me, I found that one of them has a weak station on it that I could pick up within a mile or two of my house. THe other was clear and didn't have anything within .1 of it on either side ... so the choice of which FM freq was obvious.

I also checked where my best station was withing colorado by doing an advanced search and entering the exact frequency I wanted to use. The only station was in Frisco, CO ... a long ways away and on the other side of the continental divide.

Also check for a HD radio conflict by clicking on your state and then clicking on frequency to sort the resulting list. You should not ever broadcast over a nearby station ...

http://www.hdradio.com/find_an_hd_digital_radio_station.php

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So I am trying to figure out what freq I will use. Are you saying that there should be NOTHING between the freq? So actually I need 3 EMPTY channels in a row clear? I do not have that. There may be a clear 87.9 a very weak 87.7, an empty 87.5, then a very weak 87.5. Can I use the 87.5 then? How is a good determination of what is empty on either side of it?

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No, you don't need three empty in a row, that would just be more ideal.

This is a process of trial and error. Probably no right or wrong absolute, unless you clearly have some vacant freqs or ranges to utilize. Its kind of just about being smart in your choices and make the best one you can. Stay away from the closer and/or more powerful stations in your area. Rather be next to two weak stations at 100 miles than next to one big player at 30 miles.

I guess I was thinking that if you found that 87.5 is good (and clear) and 87.4 and 87.6 (.1 on either side are clear) are also, then that would be good as well. The more separation the better.

Obviously, if you find that 87.5 is clear and 87.3 and 87.7 are also clear ... thats even better.

But you will have to setlle for what the best you can find. You may also want to just try tuning your car stereo one tick at a time and seeing where frequencies seem to be the most open that way. You can always look them up later and see whos using them. If they are a long ways away, you can rest assurred and unlikely tohurt them and they won't hurt you.

My portable AM/FM radio can do .1 increments ... my car stereo can only do .2 increments.

See which one is the weakest and has the least static on it ... that should be the one you use. If you can find a pretty clear freq. and find nothing much on either side, that would be a good choice. Maybe get 2 or 3 choices, then try using each and listening to see if one sounds better than the other.

You may need to also try the frequencies listed as GOOD instead of GREAT.

And of course, vacant is better than GREAT.

Once you have some good choices, drive around where you live and see if that freq. stays clear ... if it does, you have yourself a good one.

I've found this is pretty important, as you will eventually want to have a sign made (or make one yourself) ... and you need to know what freq. to advertise...

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So if I get a channel that has nothing broadcasting and the ones on either side are very faint broadcasts then I should be ok in my 400' because they are not strong enough to overpower me and I know there is no way to overpower them.

I was looking for 3 channles in a row with no audble boadcast, but that is not possible.

Edit: I forgot to ask, is the transmitters tunable in .1 or .2?

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Since I live in the Phoenix Area, Open radio stations are few and far between. I ususally test my list as I come ina and leave my neighbor hood each day.

I have been testing frequencies in my neighborhood for about a month now. I thought I had one a good one,but on my drive home last night, I think I have someone else that is using that for their MP3 a 1/4 to 1/2 mi up the block up now.. BUT as long as I do not interfere with that persons broadcast at my end of the block, life is good!

here is my recomendations from my tinkering.

I have seen many links to websites that you input your zipcode and gives a list of open frequencies. These are frequencies that have NOT been asigned by the FCC to a licnesed broadcast station. Also use your car radio as their tuners seem to be of better quality and reception on the move. You also may want to have a co pilot for this todo thissafely.

Once you have that list, ride around your neighborhood at least a block or 2 in all directions from your house if possible, and test those frequencies. find one or 2that appears to be the quietest..

Let me define quiet. You will hear static or a pinknoise sound while you are moving. You may actually have some station drift from out lying stations. This is terestrial and just stray signal drift. ( I have one from tuscon that will come and go here and there by my house on a certain open frequency)

If you seem to have a fairly clear channel and seems usable, Hook your FM TX up and set it up on a CD, MP3 etc and test it. I suggest finding something that WILL not be mixed up with normal music. I use a "BlueMan Group" DVD, so i can easily tell what is mine and what isn't.

Once your FM radio picks up the pilot freq, it should lock onto your signal pretty well. You should get roughly 200 feet give or take with good quality signal, once you are outside that range youshould startto getget a bit of drift off of your broadcast.. A good estimate of size is just shy a football field of good signal with your TX centered in the middle. I am thinking of getting my 100ft tape out and measure off 200 ft. This should be 5 houses down from mine as most of the lots are 40 to 50 feet wide.

When I get home (SHHH... I am at the work place taking a quick break) I will posts some of those links to help locate open channels.

William

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I would ask the folks on the EDM group about that. I haven't tried tuning .1 increments ... just rolled it up to 93.9 and left it there. I used a paperclip through the case to tune mine ... one button goes up, the other goes down ... very simple.

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AS promised LINKS!

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/vacant

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/lpfm/lpfm_channel_finder.html

( you will have to get your Latitude and Longitude for the FCC page.

We were graced here in AZ by having someone that provided AZCLC with a link to all Licensed Broadcasters in our area.. This had made looking for open spots much easier...

William

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Thanks, that FCC link is a new one for me. I only had a little trouble entering my location in terms of lat/lon hrs min sec ... but I finally found a combination of sites to figure it out.

I used this for figuring lat/lon for my address:

http://www.batchgeocode.com/lookup/

And then converted it to lat/lon hrs min sec using this:

http://www.calculatorcat.com/latitude_longitude.phtml

Then plugged in into the link provided by mnkyboy:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/lpfm/lpfm_channel_finder.html

...

The output was pretty typical for government agencies:

"The coordinates ...... cannot be used to apply for a low power broadcast station on ANY FM channel due to interference caused to authorized FM broadcast stations."

In other words, no vacant frequencies .... consistent with that channel finder had told me.

I think the other one was a easier and more helpful in that it suggested other stuff, not just 'nothing available" ... probably because the FCC site is to see if you can actually get a low powerFCC license.

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taybrynn wrote:

Thanks, that FCC link is a new one for me. I only had a little trouble entering my location in terms of lat/lon hrs min sec ... but I finally found a combination of sites to figure it out.

I used this for figuring lat/lon for my address:

http://www.batchgeocode.com/lookup/

And then converted it to lat/lon hrs min sec using this:

http://www.calculatorcat.com/latitude_longitude.phtml

Then plugged in into the link provided by mnkyboy:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/lpfm/lpfm_channel_finder.html

...

The output was pretty typical for government agencies:

"The coordinates ...... cannot be used to apply for a low power broadcast station on ANY FM channel due to interference caused to authorized FM broadcast stations."

In other words, no vacant frequencies .... consistent with that channel finder had told me.

I think the other one was a easier and more helpful in that it suggested other stuff, not just 'nothing available" ... probably because the FCC site is to see if you can actually get a low powerFCC license.

**I got lucky that someone had already done the FCC page for arizona.
I will play with it more later and see if I can come up with a better result to help everyone.( I got a throbbing migrane right now)The FCC page should show all the "licensed" Tranmsitters, so you can pick out frequencies that are knowningly open in your area.
For me 96.1 shows nothing over 100 miles close to Phoneix. But I still get some very faint broadcasts from a Tuscon station, especially at night. When I did my drive tests initially with my FM tx telescoping antenna, , this station would somewhat come in and out with me right in front of my house. With the new external antenna I am good well past both sides of my house with clean signal.. when I get to the ends of my block to go one block behind my house I get some fade, as i approach my house from behind and it gets strong again until the end of the street so I can return to my street again where its fades...
As usual, typical GOVT webpage is confusing, but I will get to the meat n taters of it!
William

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Quote from:

http://radioinsight.com/boards/index.php?t=msg&goto=61786&rid=0&S=e9229d1c5c2ba618ecf338d351b111b3#msg_61786

The EDM LCD FM transmitter remains an outstanding value compared to the Ramsey FM30 or FM100b, It’s like getting a Mercedes Benz for the price of a KIA in terms of performance and quality. For the difference in price between the Ramsey FM30 & the EDM LCD FM transmitter, you could add the Behringer DSP1424P 2-band loudness processor to the EDM for a sound that will rival any FM station on the dial, and still have money left over.

BTW, I just got a DSP1424P off ebay ... I'll be able to provide more information on this unit, as I work with it and learn more about it.

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This just in from EDM support, regarding static considerations:

NO damage will be done to the RF stage of our kits by touching the antenna with the normal static body charge often present in dry conditions. We never had this problem or anyone complaining about this before. We had a few problems in the past were people used the unit on full power with a faulty shorted external antenna or with even no antenna connected for long periods. This can be classified as negligence orabuse of the unit and failuresshould be expected to occur.

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