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CDI M5 Red LEDs and LOR


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chuck didnt you get one of the rectifiers taken apart??

Many years ago a company I work for had to evaluate some electronics modules that where in cased in a plastic housing and filled with epoxy.

What they used was (WARNING) Acetone. Get a glass jar (not plastic) fill with Acetone and the object you want to dissolve.

It will take several days for the Acetone to work, but it should dissolve the outer housing and not damage the electronic parts inside.

WARNING:

1. Use a glass jar.

2. Use only in a well ventilated area.

3. Where rubber gloves.

4. DO NOT breath the fumes.

5. DO not get the solution on your skin, it will **** the oils from your skin and may cause cancer.

6. NO SMOKING.

Did I leave anything out?

I have seen this at Home Depot and Ace Hardware, there will be other places if you look.

Do not use this stuff if you are not familiar with it.

Edited by Dennis Cherry
Added "No Smoking"
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Hmmm, am I the only one that has noticed, that of 78 posts in this thread, re: CDI, that 17% of them are from another vendor, and 22% of them from a person that did not order from Paul's presale, but promotes the products from the other vendor constantly, and together they account for 39% of the posts in this thread about CDI alone, not to count the CDI bashing done in other threads? A shill? I'm not sure I would want to do business with any competeing vendor if they support and encourage this kind of activity.

I'm a supporter of Paul and CDI, yes there is a problem, yes Paul has addressed it, and yes I spent over $1300 on the presale with CDI this year, and yes I will continue to buy from Paul in the coming years, as I have in the past. Paul is a "class act"

I appreciate the "Tech" members here also looking into the problem, trying to come up with a solution for this years displays.

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Hmmm, am I the only one that has noticed, that of 78 posts in this thread, re: CDI, that 17% of them are from another vendor, and 22% of them from a person that did not order from Paul's presale, but promotes the products from the other vendor constantly, and together they account for 39% of the posts in this thread about CDI alone, not to count the CDI bashing done in other threads? A shill? I'm not sure I would want to do business with any competeing vendor if they support and encourage this kind of activity.

I'm a supporter of Paul and CDI, yes there is a problem, yes Paul has addressed it, and yes I spent over $1300 on the presale with CDI this year, and yes I will continue to buy from Paul in the coming years, as I have in the past. Paul is a "class act"

I appreciate the "Tech" members here also looking into the problem, trying to come up with a solution for this years displays.

I agree with you. Bashing a vendor is not good if we do not know the outcome yet. We are over reacting on the vendors ability to fix the problem. My post might be premature in that department. Paul (CDI) is one of the good people and we should give him time to analyze the problem and get back with us.

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Has anyone had any of the c6's go bad? So far it looks like red M5 and C7's are the problem. Has any other color gone bad? I am afraid to test mine in case there is some kind of firmware tweak to prevent this from happening. I am sweating it because I am about halfway through stapling 1200 c7's to 1 X 2's on my roof and don't want to go back and try to pry them loose and try to get replacements and start over again. I guess I will just continue installing and wait on Dan's and Paul's research to be posted. I am absolutly sure the information will be posted once a definite cause has been isolated and a plan of action formulated.

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I can only assume you are talking about me. I would llike to point out I posted 8 times in this thread, which is 10%, not 17%, and all my post where aimed to help solve the problem. Never did I say anything bad about Paul, and I probably never will, considering I do business with him as well and have had no issues at all. He got served a raw deal this year and I feel bad for him.

I can't help what Jim says or does on this forum, just like I can't help what anyone says on this forum. All I have done is sell him what he wanted to buy and answered any techinical questions he had about things we sell.

I come here to try and help people out. You have to understand that my company will install far more lights this year than a lot of you put together. So I have no issues sharing my experiences and knowledge with folks.

John, please get your facts straight before you lash out. It really wasn't needed in this case. If there is some other issue you have with me or my company, my phone number is listed and I will be glad to talk it over with you.

Hmmm, am I the only one that has noticed, that of 78 posts in this thread, re: CDI, that 17% of them are from another vendor, and 22% of them from a person that did not order from Paul's presale, but promotes the products from the other vendor constantly, and together they account for 39% of the posts in this thread about CDI alone, not to count the CDI bashing done in other threads? A shill? I'm not sure I would want to do business with any competeing vendor if they support and encourage this kind of activity.

I'm a supporter of Paul and CDI, yes there is a problem, yes Paul has addressed it, and yes I spent over $1300 on the presale with CDI this year, and yes I will continue to buy from Paul in the coming years, as I have in the past. Paul is a "class act"

I appreciate the "Tech" members here also looking into the problem, trying to come up with a solution for this years displays.

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Brian,

Thank you for your response and for setting the facts straight. I do not have a problem with you or your company, have never ordered from you.

As much as anything, it was the perception, as expressed in many of the PM's (nasty little things) that have been floating around the last several weeks, raising this issue.

Once again, thank you for stating the facts, and maybe the PM's I and others have been receiving, regarding the perception of something else, will now cease now that this has been addressed openly.

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In that case, I applaud you for having the guts to say something!

Brian,

Thank you for your response and for setting the facts straight. I do not have a problem with you or your company, have never ordered from you.

As much as anything, it was the perception, as expressed in many of the PM's (nasty little things) that have been floating around the last several weeks, raising this issue.

Once again, thank you for stating the facts, and maybe the PM's I and others have been receiving, regarding the perception of something else, will now cease now that this has been addressed openly.

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Cars8, It is not that you are not welcome. But this thread was created to talk about this years CDI product and an issue it is having. I don't think it is ethical to discuss other products/vendors in this thread. If it had been a generic thread topic such as "what leds do you recommend" or something like that your opinions would have been welcomed. I think people are a little stressed about this (I am) but I am sure no one is more worried than Paul himself. I would not want his job. It does have the "appearance" that you promote the Diogen heavily. This is probably not your intention but that is also my perception from your posts. While I have bought products from 3 PlanetChristmas vendors this year in this thread I only discuss the CDI. Don't feel like you are not wanted.

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In that case, I applaud you for having the guts to say something!

Your're welcome Brian. None of the PM's were from anyone that had made a post in this thread, but were longtime PC members that read the LED threads.

The perception that many had, as expressed in the PM's, was generally that they would not do business with a company they were preceiving to promote what they considered to be unethical practices.

I'm sorry I made my post as I did, but for your business to survive a "whisper attack", you needed an opportunity to be aware, and a chance to respond.

Jim, I also apologize to you as to how you preceived my post. Keitha's post above sums my feelings. This is a thread about CDI, and those of us that purchased from CDI, and ways to preserve our displays for this year. For most of us, reading many many posts about another brand or vendor is not an option at this point and serves no point. It is nice to be enthused about a product, and to share your enthusium in the proper threads.

You have to admit that you were very crictical of CDI as this problem with the red LEDs surfaced, and you didn't even have a dog in the hunt, but all of your posts served no purpose but to have people sending PM's about you and potentially damaging HotRods business as they thought you were a shill for him bashing CDI.

It's nice to be a cheerleader for a product or a company, in the appropriate threads, but not in every thread just because it had the initials LED in them.

NOW, Hip Hip Hooray for Paul and CDI and I know this will be worked through, and the future will be LED brite

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OK, I spoke with Singing Light Girl (couldn't get her to sing me any Christmas songs though dag nab it) and she will make good all the baddies :>) I've also just completed fade testing every string of lights shipped to me (30,000 + !) The wife helped me once I set up a LOR box and we went crazy plugging 'em all in and letting them cycle through fading up and down. Found a few DOA's. (a few 100 ct's would not light at all) All my M5 Red 50's failed :>(

They never regained full consciousness so I unplugged them from their lifeline and put them into a box marked "NG" where they will remain in a catatonic state of indefinite sleep. RIP red M5 50's. They were the ONLY ones that suffered from the ill fated "fade destruct" disease. Something else I noticed during this testing frenzy was that the fade rates were all different between counts (50's, 70's, 100's) going from fastest to slowest respectively and the 100's (slowest rate) had the smoothest fade. The 70's exhibited a "pause" from lower half of brightness than a rapid rate up to full bright. The 50's had a "bump" in brightness about half way through the ramp. The BEST or longest and smoothest ramp over any color or count appeared to be with the M5 Multi 100's. My 6' high X 12' wide, 13 segment, 2600 light "Marty Fan" looks and performs flawlessly done in Multi M5 100's. Thanks CDI :>)

Edited by Duke
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Ok folks. I think this topic has gone the wrong way.

I do not know much about LEDS or CDI, but just got a quick 5 page lesson in M5 and LED lights. With thousands of members on PC, no one will always agree with you on all subjects. Disagreements need to be handled off the boards through email or PM exchange.

Based on other topics and threads that I have read about CDI, sounds like Paul is or will make it right. Any board issues with LOR or any other company sound like people are trying to resolve the issue. Please give the companies in question time to address the issue.

Thank You.

Scott Loftus - Moderator22

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The problem i think most people are having is they are worried about decorating with these lights if there are going to be major issues. The problem with getting these so late in the year makes time of the essence which was not the fault of anyones for obvious reasons. Everyone is getting ants in the pants cause if there is an issue that cannot be corrected its September 24 and the time is coming to light up, I know 1st hand cause I am one of these people. All we can do is wait it out and if your not prepared to do that then i would not plan on using these lights that do have issues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I haven't tested my 50ct Red M5s yet with my D-Light boards. Still need to make a trip to storage and that will be another day or two. I need 16 strings of Red for my all-LED Mega Tree; I have 18 strings. So I can test one and still have a spare. Not a lot of cushion.

IF IF IF they exhibit the same problem with a D-Light controller, then I just won't fade them in my sequences. :( Somehow I'll adjust my thinking. I want them to be BRIGHT.

But, IF they work just fine (no flickering or dimming), I'll get back here quick and let you know.

Plus - if a string of Reds fail on me, I'll be dissecting that little diode blob to see just what is inside. Has anyone else opened up one (PM me if you don't want Paul to know).

JonB

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....I can test one and still have a spare. Not a lot of cushion.

JonB

I would suggest you test ALL of them and if they fail let CDI know right away and they will replace them. It's better to find out now rather than after you build your display feature.

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Ok so I got this E-mail from Dan at LightORama today:

Quote Hi Paul,

Yes we have. We have had 12 strings running since the day we got them. They have been going through constant fades, blinks, different intensities, etc... No strings have failed. The clear ones have a flicker and act differently than the rest. This only happens when they are on the controller not when they are plugged in directly. Also they have an inconsistent color ( unrelated to any controller issues ).

Overall the LEDs are very inconsistent. When ramping up, even the same colors will come on at different intensities thus exhibiting a somewhat random on when they are being faded on/off. This most likely has to do with the little power supplies that they have placed at each end of the strings. Those power supplies do not have tight tolerances and work fine when plugged directly into the wall but when trying to fade them, those inconstancies between the power supplies shows up.

Because of the power supplies used, the LEDs do not react quickly to intensity changes. Thus the shimmer effect is not as pronounced as it is with other LEDs. The Blues react slower then the rest and in some cases react so slowly that the shimmer effect is totally masked and the LEDs just stay on steady. Again this set that stays on steady is a result of the inconstancies on the tolerances of the power supplies at the ends of the strings. Although all of the blues react slowly only one set is so slow that it cannot shimmer, during a fade down all of the other strings will be off while this one is still fading down.

The problem with Red LEDs going to 50% after a couple of fades most likely has to do with the failure of one of the power supplies and thus only 1/2 the power is making it to the LEDs. I have not been able to reproduce that and wonder if I have any of the REDs in question. The only red LEDs that I have are the ones that look like mini lights.

So the biggest problem I see is the quality of those power supplies at each end of the strings. Because of the nature of LEDs those supplies have to have very high tolerance if you want to have the LEDs act the same when going through effects such as fading. Those tolerances are not nearly as important when you just plug them into the wall because the high voltage masks any differences however even plugging them directly into the wall you can see some strings come on a split second slower than others. Again not an issue when you do not trying to animate.

We will keep them running but at this point we have most likely run them the equivalent of a Christmas Season without a failure.

Dan End of Quote

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Power supplies? Does that mean that these are not 4 diode bridge rectifiers? And if these are transformer based power supplies, isn't it a bad thing to fade a transformer? If someone could give me the specs for a full wave bridge rectifier to make that would work for the RED M5 50's, I would be willing to give it a shot on the lifeless ones I have here and report back with the results. (Paul, can you get the specs for these?)

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Looks like the red M5 50's are the ones with the most problems. We've had three sets go bad on us--out of the three we tried with a set of LOR controllers. The green, blue and whites we tried seem OK.

Has anyone had the same problem with any other color--that the full set actually dies after fading up and down a few times with LOR? Another question--does this only affect the lights that were ordered early or does it affect recent orders from CDI?

It's getting close to "crunch time" and there seems to be a few unanswered questions remaining. We've got 216 new sets of lights that we have to start securing very soon to enable us to be up and running on schedule. PLUS--our Mayor wants us to do city hall and we're holding off ordering lights right now.

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From testing my C7 25 LEDs, both Red and Green have met the 50% brightness and flickering fate after one seried of fading. My Warm Whites seem unaffected, but I've only tested one string of each color. My Multi M5s work great and I 've tested multiple strings of these.

Looks like the red M5 50's are the ones with the most problems. We've had three sets go bad on us--out of the three we tried with a set of LOR controllers. The green, blue and whites we tried seem OK.

Has anyone had the same problem with any other color--that the full set actually dies after fading up and down a few times with LOR? Another question--does this only affect the lights that were ordered early or does it affect recent orders from CDI?

It's getting close to "crunch time" and there seems to be a few unanswered questions remaining. We've got 216 new sets of lights that we have to start securing very soon to enable us to be up and running on schedule. PLUS--our Mayor wants us to do city hall and we're holding off ordering lights right now.

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