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paul sessel

CDI 2009 LED M5 Samples - PART 2

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A couple of more waveform pictures, this time at 50% setting. The first one is for 50-ct, second is for 100-ct, same string/setup as before. As you can see, the peak current for the 100-ct string is higher at a 50% setting than it is for 100%.

post-3848-129571094769_thumb.jpg

post-3848-129571094777_thumb.jpg

Edited by pshort
Oops...missed the pictures first time around.

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Tony,

I've wanted to get over to see your as well but I am stuck here it seems, at least for now.

Let me know when your coming over so I can meet you out there. You might want to make it quick while I still have led's left in the display.

Tim,

I still plan to get out this year and see your display. Being local to you, I could have helped you rebuild those strings. Hope things get better for you from here. I'm sure your visitors still enjoy your display, but can understand the frustration.

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Phil,

Thanks for posting the scope displays. The AC waveform for your isolation transformer output is dipping during the current peaks. What is the VA rating for your transformer?

The peak current (and noise generated) would be higher if the AC input current was not restricted by the transformer.

Howard

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Hey guys just an FYI. Paul posted in another thread where someone asked about a group buy that his group buy would be with the factory he used to use prior to the one he used this year. The one everyone raved about the quality of the lights!

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Phil,

Thanks for posting the scope displays. The AC waveform for your isolation transformer output is dipping during the current peaks. What is the VA rating for your transformer?

The peak current (and noise generated) would be higher if the AC input current was not restricted by the transformer.

Howard

50VA (Triad N68-X). I suspect that it has a better than 1:1 turns ratio, as you can see the voltage is greater than would be expected for 1:1 ratio.

Edited by pshort

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Hey guys just an FYI. Paul posted in another thread where someone asked about a group buy that his group buy would be with the factory he used to use prior to the one he used this year. The one everyone raved about the quality of the lights!

Gotta link?

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Hey guys just an FYI. Paul posted in another thread where someone asked about a group buy that his group buy would be with the factory he used to use prior to the one he used this year. The one everyone raved about the quality of the lights!

Hmm...what does that mean? Are the products also going to be the same as the 2007 models? If so, is this thread now moot?

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As far a I am concerned the evaluation is over.

Paul is going back to the original manufacturer for 2005-2007.

The 2008 was a different company and the 2009 lights also from this company, now the original company is back.

I have tried to make the 2009 lights work but at the end the 100 light strings with the voltage doubler circuit do not generate enough voltage to turn the LED's on full brightness. The 50 light strings are drawing to much current but can be fixed.

The noise problem when dimming the 2009 lights is a show stopper as the controllers will not respond to your commands and just do what they want sometimes.

The piggyback receptacle has many concerned about having that option eliminated.

Thanks Paul for letting us help you make the decision for your 2009 product.

I learned a lot for this experience.

Edited by Dennis Cherry

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As far a I am concerned the evaluation is over.

Paul is going back to the original manufacturer for 2005-2007.

The 2008 was a different company and the 2009 lights also from this company, now the original company is back.

I have tried to make the 2009 lights work but at the end the 100 light strings with the voltage doubler circuit do not generate enough voltage to turn the LED's on full brightness. The 50 light strings are drawing to much current but can be fixed.

The noise problem when dimming the 2009 lights is a show stopper as the controllers will not respond to your commands and just do what they want sometimes.

The piggyback receptacle has many concerned about having that option eliminated.

Thanks Paul for letting us help you make the decision for your 2009 product.

I learned a lot for this experience.

So I wonder with the exchange offer.....which factory are they going to come from?

Edited by roberson3

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The factory that was used for the 2008's.

If that is the case I wonder if we will actually gain anything or just loose more money by paying return shipping?

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OK, I just want to spell this out, so I'm sure not to miss anything.

You're saying that those of us who bought the 2008 crappy LED's will only get replacements from the same factory, and that those will absolutely NOT dim without huge amounts of electrical noise?

And anybody who buys new in the next group buy will get LED's from the old, good company?

Basically, those of us who bought the crap last year are stuck with it forever?

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OK, I just want to spell this out, so I'm sure not to miss anything.

You're saying that those of us who bought the 2008 crappy LED's will only get replacements from the same factory, and that those will absolutely NOT dim without huge amounts of electrical noise?

And anybody who buys new in the next group buy will get LED's from the old, good company?

Basically, those of us who bought the crap last year are stuck with it forever?

I am hoping that Paul will respond here and clear this up.

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That is exactly how I read it and understood it from the post on the other board.

"All new purchases going forward will be from the old factory without the voltage doublers. Most all replacements will be from Innovalite with the voltage doublers."

I am awaiting clarification on this because I had no idea that I was getting lights from anywhere different then the ones everyone was raving about in 2007. I don't recall seeing anything stating that these lights wouldn't work for animating, or would go up in flames and smoke when you dim them. I will hold off saying any more until I know for sure how this is going to play out.

OK, I just want to spell this out, so I'm sure not to miss anything.

You're saying that those of us who bought the 2008 crappy LED's will only get replacements from the same factory, and that those will absolutely NOT dim without huge amounts of electrical noise?

And anybody who buys new in the next group buy will get LED's from the old, good company?

Basically, those of us who bought the crap last year are stuck with it forever?

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If that is the case, that is just wrong!!!

I have something that seems weird to report about the 08 LED strings.

I am using 100ct G15 r,g,b, and ww. I have them on my 24 mini trees and am having to replace anywhere from 1-4 strings a day so far.

Here is the weird part.

I have 7 each of red, green, blue, and warm white on my tree inside. My inside tree is part of the show and does as much fading , shimmering, twinkling, and blinking as do the lights outside. I have not had any of the 28 strings on the indoor tree go out. All 28 strings work just fine.

When replacing the burned out strings from outside I can smell the awful "electronics burnt smell" from the barrels on the bad strings.

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In all cases (2007, 2008, 2009), is the main company Innovalite? And they are simply using different Chinese suppliers each year (seemingly whoever is cheapest)?

If that's the case, Innovalite needs to take them back, and supply us with the correct LED strands from the 2007 supplier that we all assumed we were getting. I don't know Paul, but its a fair bet that he couldn't do this himself, the financial hit would be too huge.

I'm finding that my strands (50 count C6) fail often (about 1 percent per day), but they are weather dependent. Some strands that don't work at 40 degrees work find at 20 degrees, then go back to not working at 40 and above. Fortunately my big mega tree has so many light strands on it I don't have to replace them all the time, I just wait for the temperature to change (then other strands quit working instead). I like to think of this as 'slow weather sequencing'. :)

I absolutely do not want 1700 strands replaced with others that cannot be dimmed. As it is, I think I have to load them up in a U-Haul and drive them to Kansas City, as the return shipping would be huge!

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Agreed that these have been a major bad deal this year. I put my house lining lights (the C7 25ct LEDs) on my house 3 times. Took them down the first time to do the "quick fix" of soldering the resistor in series as that's all the time I could afford. Put them back up, and after the first sequence, lost 2 strings...by 2 hours, I was at 5 strings bad. Took them down again, and spent many sleepless nights doing the "Full fix" of the 4 diodes and 2 resistors on each string, removing the "tumors"! What a freaking time consuming PITA! Didn't get my show going until Dec. 13th because of all these hassles! Luckly, I haven't had any problems since, but I haven't tried fading them as I removed the fades early on...too scared to loose my house lining lights by testing a fade. Most people have reported they fade perfectly after the full fix, but I'm saving my tests until after the first of the year! HA!

I sure am glad I didn't get any more of these than I did....and I live about 15 miles from CDI! :-)

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If that's the case, Innovalite needs to take them back, and supply us with the correct LED strands from the 2007 supplier that we all assumed we were getting. I don't know Paul, but its a fair bet that he couldn't do this himself, the financial hit would be too huge.

QUOTE]

I don't know Paul either, and have heard nothing but good things about him. And nothing but the best about his products up til now.

I think a fair bet would be if these were not replaced with LEDs that actually work then the financial hit would extend into many years to come.

Just like everyone still brags about the 07 lights no one who bought 08 lights will forget the problems or the outcome, whatever that may be. We sure would like to have something to brag about:D

I like everyone else, thought I was spending my money on the bragged about 07 lights!!

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I have no idea about m5's but talked to Paul yesterday and was very disappointed to learn if I want to exchange my c9's they will be from the same factory as '08. My c9's are not computer controlled and I have had no electrical failures but my experience is that the globes are extremely thin and shatter too easily. I also have quite a collection of globes that have fallen out completely. I would put them back but it is easier said than done finding the missing ones in amongst 12" garland. They would probably fall out soon enough again anyway. I sure did not get a warm fuzzy that if I spend the days it will take to replace the bulbs on my snowman that the replacement product will be significantly different. I came away with the feeling that there was a possibility that the loose globes issue may be addressed to some extent but that the globes would be the same too-thing easily shattered material. I have c6 sets from Paul from '06 and have managed to snap one or two off at the base (with extreme abuse) but I'm not sure you could shatter the globe with a hammer. I actually had several broken globes this year just in shipping from Paul.

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I hate to say it, but if the only option is to get strands from the same inept company as 2008 (which from what I can tell, STILL can't get it right with the sample strings), then I will eat my 1700 strings, and purchase the additional 2000 I need next year elsewhere. I will absolutely not risk re-stringing everything with strings from the same factory as 2008.

That's a tough pill for me to swallow, but the headache (and backache, and body ache, etc), is just not worth it. I'd really like to set up my display and only do minor maintenance over the course of December. Who in the world wants to put up a bunch of potential time bombs (again)?

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Looks like I will have to keep my 2008 strings and see if I can find some kind of plastic dip to better insulate them from the elements as I have rebuilt all 96 of the rectifiers so I would not have any failures or noise problems. I doubt the electrical tape I am using currently will last multiple seasons. Would definitely hate to try to repair 1200 sets. Did he say he would not give you a refund as I would expect the manufacturer would not try to make Paul eat the loss because it wasn't Paul's fault the strings weren't made well.

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I understand that there are a lot of disappointed people this year, believe me I am disappointed as well. I do believe that everyone needs to calm down just a little. I have had these lights testing on LOR in my office now for over 6 weeks going 24/7. Testing has included fades, shimmers, twinkles, on/off and ramping for over 1,008 hours. Basically 3-4 Christmas seasons. No flaws. Please hang tight, I really am confident that you will not be disappointed. As I've said in the past, the easy thing to do would have been to walk away from this mess. I'm not doing that for Pete's sake. We value our customers!!!

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I don't think anyone is accusing you of walking away or trying to abandon us. We are not happy with some of the testing results we have heard. Then we hear that in the 09 prebuy these will be from the 07 factory, but the exchange offer will come from the 08 factory. You would have to expect people to be upset and disappointed about that. If this is not the case just let us know.

While your testing sounds good, I would like for you to move your testing outside. I have posted that I have 100ct G15s running on my tree inside. I have 7 sets of red, green, blue, and warm white that have had no problems what so ever. However I have the same ct. and style running outside and I am having to replace 1 to 4 sets a day.

The lights I am using inside are part of the show. They shimmer, fade, and blink as much as the ones outside.

There is another post pointing to weather affecting their strings.

Sometimes venting is a good thing. This means we are still in this to get stuff fixed and have not just walked away and went somewhere else. I am sure you are dissapointed also, and should understand our frustration.

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Paul, the problem is lack of information here. Of course there is going to be a bunch of talk about this problem here on the boards, and a lot of people make educated guesses at what will happen and post them as fact. Then the rest of us jump all over it, and pretty soon we have the old kids game of telephone going.

I'm sure others would like a lot of things cleared up, but perhaps a couple of quick questions could be answered here for us.

1. What happened to cause this problem?

2. You are the US distributor for Innovalite, and I assume that the great strands of the past years were also from Innovalite. What did they do for 2008 that put all this in the tank, and how can we be assured it won't happen again?

3. Group buys for next year, as per another post of yours, will be from the same factory that made the 2006/07 strands.

a. Does this mean that you are done selling anything from the 2008 factory?

b. How do you, as Creative Displays, control this? Isn't this at Innovalite's discretion?

4. Replacements, for those of us that qualify.

a. Are they from the same 2008 factory, or the 2006/07 factory?

b. If everything is Innovalite, why can't we get the older factory type as replacements?

c. We'd really like to know that the engineer that designed the 2008 lights has happily moved on to another profession and has nothing to do with designing the 'fixes'.

We don't need any technical information....that's been beaten to death on this forum ad nauseum.

The way to keep us patient and happy is information. Believe me, I want a quality product, and if this all works out I think most of us will be happy customers forever.

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