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jeffostroff

Photos of CDI Burnt up circuit boards vs good boards, and possible only 1/2 wave?

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I'm guessing they went with the voltage doubler design to save on wire. You'd have to run the "DC" wires in addition to the passthrough AC wires with a full-bridge solution. With this solution, they traded wires for "globs". So I guess globs are cheaper. Also, by doubling the voltage, they can run half the series sections than a full-bridge solution.

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I would be concerned about the damage to the capacitor in the encapsulation process - if they get too hot at all, they lose electolyte and then go up. Surrounded by molten plastic is definatly over their rated temperatures and it takes very little time at high temps to destroy them.

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snip a bit

I agree that the stirng is not half wave or full wave, and most likely a poor man's DC circuit. Usually when we create a DC circuit from an analog 110v line, we use a diode bridage with 4 diodes, and there is usually an electrolytic capacitor from the high voltage line to the ground line, to smooth things out, and help regulate the voltage a bit.

MAX: What are you calling the high voltage line? Correct statement would be more like the cap is installed between the Positive and Negative DC lines. And true every thing you have said about it smoothing out the ripples on the DC lines. But here is what happens. The cap is like a storage tank, storing up electrons during the peaks (actually leveling off the peaks some) and releasing them during the valleys to fill them in some. But adding a cap will also slowly turn off the LEDs so your fades, shimmers, twinkles and just plain turning off the LEDs will have a slight delay IF the cap is to high of a uF value.

That is a classic text book AC to DC power supply. Remember, voltage cannot change instantaneously across a capacitor, that is why caps are used in situations where you have ripple voltage, in an effort to smooth it out. This is a poor man's cheap 340V DC power supply in a nutshell.

MAX: Ok, if this is a poor mans 340V DC power supply. What do you suggest be used?

Now, maybe we have the same problem that surfersteve and those guys worked on, I suspect we do, as the culprit in the end appears to be underrated parts.

Respectfully

Max

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Well, that's sort of a gray area as to whether it's false advertising, it's not really full wave, and it's not really half wave. In the end, supposedly full wave gives you less dip in voltage, but looks like they created a poor man's DC power supply, by using a half wave, that becomes regulated by the large capacitor, which theoretically should acheive the same peformance of a full wave. So the end justifies the means here. They do look great when they are on.

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Jeff, either the string is HWR or FWR there is no other choices.

But I regress and agree that if wave form only shows half of the sine wave is being presented to the LEDs and they claim it is full wave then there were laws at one time that protected the consumer against false claims. At one time we also had advocates that would take the charge to the courts all in the name of protecting the consumers.

I have to admit, it's been some years sense I was like all over electronic schematics. So, I did a google search on "Voltage doublers" and it appears that one of the few ways one can get a true FWR with a voltage doubler. Is with the use of 4 diodes and two caps. Anything else is just half wave. Even the center tapped transformer, 2 diodes and two center tapped caps is still just half wave.

But it is my contention that to large of a cap value will also mess up fades, shimmers and twinkles by slowing the decaying voltage during these features.

Max

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To all in this thread:

By using the number on the white tag on the strings, I obtained this info from Underwriters Lab:

PAN YU JYH MING ENTERPRISE CO LTD

These lights were made by a company in TAIWAN.

I believe Innovalite is only a distributor or the tags are fraudulant.

I would suggest that if you were going to ship any of these for examination that they be shipped to UL since the strings bear their UL trademarks and numbers.

Here's a report form for UL:

Field Report Form

Here's the Contact page:

UL Contacts

Edited by Duke

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For those of us who have been following the thread but got lost in all the jargon, do you mind summarizing your conclusion and recommendations in a language that the circuitry ignorant can understand. Like myself. Thanks.

Ryan

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For those of us who have been following the thread but got lost in all the jargon, do you mind summarizing your conclusion and recommendations in a language that the circuitry ignorant can understand. Like myself. Thanks.

Ryan

Return them to Paul for replacement... ;)

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Return them to Paul for replacement... ;)

Oh Terry, that was so helpful. I was looking for a posting by Paul and didn't see one so I was wondering what his position was.

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Oh Terry, that was so helpful. I was looking for a posting by Paul and didn't see one so I was wondering what his position was.

Paul from CDI? He recommends returning them for replacement.

Otherwise, like Terry said.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :o

The 2008 CDI strings are flawed in a quality deficient manner!

I believe that they loaded their pick-n-place equipment with the wrong parts and spit out a bunch of..... I'll stop there.

Was that being politically correct or what? :rolleyes:

The non political reason to return them.....

Quality control went out to lunch and never came back the first day they started producing these in 2008. :(

I am returning my 2008 stock in hope that the manufacturer

PAN YU JYH MING ENTERPRISE CO LTD

woke up and realized the potential risks involved. :confused:

I was one of the first to find and remedy the problems with the red M5 50's and to be honest it really gets tiring seeing these threads about redesigning something so simple.

Do you want to know the right and best way to design these?

Buy a string of full wave Diogen's or Holiday Creation's lights and make 'em THAT way. Simple. Done.

How many different ways are there to make a wheel round? LOTS!

But no matter which way you make it, the end result is you have a round wheel.

So to summarize my conclusion and make a recommendation that the circuitry ingnorant can understand.....

The 2008's had a bunch of flat spots in them.

If they could talk they would say "woppity woppity wopp pffzzzt poof kapoot!" and then smell like burning rubber as well. PeeeeeYeewww! :eek:

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To all in this thread:

By using the number on the white tag on the strings, I obtained this info from Underwriters Lab:

PAN YU JYH MING ENTERPRISE CO LTD

These lights were made by a company in TAIWAN.

I believe Innovalite is only a distributor or the tags are fraudulant.

Here is a picture of the PAN YU JYH MING factory's "Quality Control Room"; kinda explains a lot~

post-2409-129571105516_thumb.jpg

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Randaling:

You can find a good fast explanation with a couple of easy diagrams of half wave and full wave rectification here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

The issue with LEDs is that half wave rectified lights, using only one diode, will theoretically flicker. It's more expensive to make full wave rectification lights because it requires more diodes, but full wave is the way to go, you won

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Randaling:

You can find a good fast explanation with a couple of easy diagrams of half wave and full wave rectification here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

The issue with LEDs is that half wave rectified lights, using only one diode, will theoretically flicker. It's more expensive to make full wave rectification lights because it requires more diodes, but full wave is the way to go, you won

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Tony:

I doubt very much that these LEDs were around in 2003, to even be tested in a string of lights. I'm very skeptical as to what is going on here. Most companies had LEDs maybe in 2005.

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I tend to agree that the whole UL approval aspect of those light strings is very suspect. I think that Paul would be well advised to get the UL certification information for both the replacement strings and the 2009 coop buy strings, and check them out very carefully to make sure that the information is legitimate and applies to the strings in question.

Edited by pshort

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I wonder if this is the same factory.....saw this on the LED foreverbright website..its from 2005

http://www.brite-lite.com/images/ledletter.gif

I wonder if they are at it again.

I don't think so, I checked into that one, Bortex Industry Co. Ltd is base in Hong Kong, factory located @ SHAOGANGTOU DISTRICT,QIAOTOU TOWN, DONGGUAN CITY,GUANGDONG PROVINCE, CHINA 523536.

The two companies have different backgrounds, marketing focus and there is about 1 hour driving distance between the two factories~

It seems like Bortex actually got their CSA certification this year, .... I guess they must be safe now, because COSTCO is their 08 buyer.

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To be honest here, I'm surprised that no one has yet filed a lawsuit. These strings have literally caused fires and caused actual property damage. I'm even more surprised that a recall hasn't been filed by CDI or the Chinese company they were made from. In my opinion, it's only a matter of time before substantial property damage occurs...or someone gets killed as a result. I suppose, that's when lawsuits will be filed...

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To be honest here, I'm surprised that no one has yet filed a lawsuit. These strings have literally caused fires and caused actual property damage. I'm even more surprised that a recall hasn't been filed by CDI or the Chinese company they were made from. In my opinion, it's only a matter of time before substantial property damage occurs...or someone gets killed as a result. I suppose, that's when lawsuits will be filed...

The only thing I'm real surprised about is that Paul has not yet commented on this thread yet.

Roman

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The only thing I'm real surprised about is that Paul has not yet commented on this thread yet.

Roman

I'm not surprised. I think Paul is anxious to stop talking about this and has nothing more to say. His supplier screwed up big time, he got hosed and his customers got hosed. He's passed on everything he knows about the problem and offered to replace the bad strings. While we might want to take them apart and find the root cause, Paul would much rather put it all behind him.

I think the fact that he's going back to his '07 supplier indicates he's cut his losses with this factory and probably is in no position to comment on their internal quality control (or lack thereof).

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I'm not surprised. I think Paul is anxious to stop talking about this and has nothing more to say. His supplier screwed up big time, he got hosed and his customers got hosed. He's passed on everything he knows about the problem and offered to replace the bad strings. While we might want to take them apart and find the root cause, Paul would much rather put it all behind him.

I think the fact that he's going back to his '07 supplier indicates he's cut his losses with this factory and probably is in no position to comment on their internal quality control (or lack thereof).

The issues in this thread really has nothing to do with what happened last year. It has to do with HWR versus FWR.

I know for one if I was Paul I would go for the JUGGLER.

JMHO

Roman

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I guess what bothers me about the entire situation is that a product recall or atleast a "stop use statement" has not been issued by CDI. It just give me a feeling that CDI doesn't care about its customers well being. That just my opinion.

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The issues in this thread really has nothing to do with what happened last year. It has to do with HWR versus FWR.

I know for one if I was Paul I would go for the JUGGLER.

JMHO

Roman

Roman you need to educate yourself and read the title of this thread completely. This thread DOES have everything to to do with what happened last year. Take a look at the photos too while your at it.

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