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Pastaboy62

color changing sequences

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I asked this question a while back with few responses back. I have 6 channels that change colors and they total about 12 amps.

My question is, that in some sequences I have I have the items change colors simultaneously. Say the 6 channels change at 2.20, the items will have both colors lit as one color is going on while one is turning off. Is there a way to stop this?

Last year I had 100amps of lights. If I have the lights change colors I will have 112 amps at at times, though very rarely. I need a way to stop this.

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Turn one off before turning the other on....

That way they won't be on at the same time.Why not just add a circuit for more power so you can make it look the way you want it too.

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i use all .05 timing, but I do cross color fades all the time and I have the power to do it. That's why I suggested upping you power capacity. Fades look much smoother that sharp changes. Some songs need quick changes and others need smooth slow transitions.

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i use all .05 timing, but I do cross color fades all the time and I have the power to do it. That's why I suggested upping you power capacity. Fades look much smoother that sharp changes. Some songs need quick changes and others need smooth slow transitions.

Using fades is a great way to go and works GREAT with regular bulbs. but NOT so much with LEDs. This is the main reason I've stayed away from LEDs

Try starting the fade UP of one color at slightly less than the 1/2 way point of the fade DOWN of the first color. If you keep the fade times consistent between the colors, most people will mot be able to tell. ;)

I keep close track on how much power is used due to the use of over 200 10G-12 bulbs and some VERY slow fades. When my fade downs are at 25% I start my fade ups, making sure there is at least a 5% to 20% fade gap between the colors.

Example:

Red fading down is at 75% power

Blue fading up is at 5% power

Red fading down is at 50% power

Blue fading up is at 30% power

Red fading down is at 30% power

Blue fading up is at 50% power

Red fading down is at 10% power

Blue fading up is at 75% power

Red fading down is at 5% power (for that last little hint of color)

Blue fading up is at 80% power

Red fading down is at 0% power

Blue fading up is at 100% power

Before any one says it, yes this IS time consuming and you HAVE to be meticulous about the fading/ramping times and rates, and yes most people are not able to tell. However, when I'm out there handing out candy canes on the weekends, I like it. :P

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Mrs D is right but her explanation makes it seem a bit harder than it really is

if you fade your green light down from 100 to 0 over 1 second, begin your fade up of the next color half acrross the fade down and make the fade up last the same amount of time ( 1 second)

this way the second color doesn't even come in until the first color has gone down to 50%

post-4534-12957116624_thumb.jpg

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I have noticed that some people keep track of a "RG Diff" (Red vs. Green) difference in their controller spreadsheets ... and their rule is to do only two colors at once ... typically white + red or white + green ... and never RED and GREE at the same time.

By adhering to this rule that you don't do red and green at the same time, you can effectively discount the red amps every time you combine it with its green counterpart on the same controller + 8ch bank ... and this then stretches your effective power and lowers the amps on each controller ...

I'm a believer.

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I asked a question similar to this awhile back, though for someone reason it's not turning up in my list of posts..

Anyhoo.. the general consensus was that the instant one light goes off and another comes on is negligible and not to be worried about.

this way the second color doesn't even come in until the first color has gone down to 50%

However.... 50% fade does NOT equate to 50% power usage. Not even close. I don't have the figures to quote but you need to be down closer to 20% before you see a big drop in actual power usage.

It is for that reason that when I sequence with the "never red and green at the same time" rule I include cross fades in that. I never cross fade red and green because it's not safe to assume the electricity usage scales accordingly. If I have a channel on at all, then for wire, fuse and breaker requirement math, I always assume it's drawing it's full load. Faded or not.

Edited by RiscIt

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I have noticed that some people keep track of a "RG Diff" (Red vs. Green) difference in their controller spreadsheets ... and their rule is to do only two colors at once ... typically white + red or white + green ... and never RED and GREE at the same time.

By adhering to this rule that you don't do red and green at the same time, you can effectively discount the red amps every time you combine it with its green counterpart on the same controller + 8ch bank ... and this then stretches your effective power and lowers the amps on each controller ...

I'm a believer.

This is exactly what I have done the last 2 years and you can read more details about it at http://www.holdman.com/christmas/projects.asp and even download my excel spread sheet.

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I asked a question similar to this awhile back, though for someone reason it's not turning up in my list of posts..

Anyhoo.. the general consensus was that the instant one light goes off and another comes on is negligible and not to be worried about.

However.... 50% fade does NOT equate to 50% power usage. Not even close. I don't have the figures to quote but you need to be down closer to 20% before you see a big drop in actual power usage.

It is for that reason that when I sequence with the "never red and green at the same time" rule I include cross fades in that. I never cross fade red and green because it's not safe to assume the electricity usage scales accordingly. If I have a channel on at all, then for wire, fuse and breaker requirement math, I always assume it's drawing it's full load. Faded or not.

obviously you didn't that close attention to my desription or picture.... 49% or one color plus 1% of a second and the third color at 0% will probably not trip any breakers. The cross fade only occurs between the 0 and 50% marks to avoid over doing it on the power draw

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I asked a question similar to this awhile back, though for someone reason it's not turning up in my list of posts..

Anyhoo.. the general consensus was that the instant one light goes off and another comes on is negligible and not to be worried about.

However.... 50% fade does NOT equate to 50% power usage. Not even close. I don't have the figures to quote but you need to be down closer to 20% before you see a big drop in actual power usage.

It is for that reason that when I sequence with the "never red and green at the same time" rule I include cross fades in that. I never cross fade red and green because it's not safe to assume the electricity usage scales accordingly. If I have a channel on at all, then for wire, fuse and breaker requirement math, I always assume it's drawing it's full load. Faded or not.

I think your right. Even two colors crossing at 30% intensity could use more power (at least as much) than 1 color at 100%. There is an interesting diccusion ont this. After re-re-re-reading that thread, I'm still not total sure, but here is the thread I think you were looking for.

http://forums.planetchristmas.com/showthread.php?t=14490

I would be in Philip's example, he is going to make, but not by much. In my own fading, I usually start ramping up the new color when the old color gets to 75%. When the old color is at 0%, the new color is at 75%. I do this to eliminate a "dim" look between color changes. But that's a personal perference.

Typically, I plan for two colors (out of three) to be on at full intensity at any given time, even though it really does not quite happen this way.

Edited by B_Regal78

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I think it would really depend on the specific lights being used ... and you'd want to measure the actual usage of a cross fade using those specific lights, as the power usage per LOR power % would likely vary.

You could make the argument that if the fades are quick enough, that it would just creat a very short term overload situation, but if you did it over and over again ... you could blow the breaker.

The safe approach would be to only cross fade those items for which you know you can safely handle 100% load on both items at the same time ... but I can bet some people violate this or determine that its not a problem for them.

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I use the design method that any two colors can be on at 100% at any given time without blowing the breakers, this way my cross fade methods don't really matter so much

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obviously you didn't that close attention to my desription or picture....

"obviously"? Where the heck did that come from?

Indeed I did look at it, and I did note that before making my post. I also noted that you still left 2 channels on, crossing at 25%, there. That is closer than I find acceptable.

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I use the design method that any two colors can be on at 100% at any given time without blowing the breakers, this way my cross fade methods don't really matter so much

The safe approach would be to only cross fade those items for which you know you can safely handle 100% load on both items at the same time ...

Typically, I plan for two colors (out of three) to be on at full intensity at any given time, even though it really does not quite happen this way.

It makes me feel good that others do it the same way I do - although it does not help the OP.

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sorry if I offended you RiscIt, but the way I showed my cross fade would put the total % according to the sequencer at a 51% combination across the duration of the fade

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No worries.

I see that. The point a few of us are making, however, is that the total percentage according to the sequencer is not equal to the total percentage of what the actual current draw is.

It is very much not a 1:1 ratio.

Then what is it? I don't know and right now I'm far too lazy to hook up a controller and graph it. I suspect it varies by bulb type.

Regardless, unless I'm sure, I don't put my equipment in that situation. Looking at it and saying "51% intensity on both channels is probably less current draw than 100% on only 1" is not okay for me. The word "probably" doesn't belong in there, IMO.

Add in that this is usually done over many channels (mega tree, for example) and it becomes a larger risk.

Nope... As easy as it is to just look and make sure everything is off on one before turning on another, that's what I do.

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someone did a full test of the actual draw on 3 strings of lights as then put them thru the paces with a kill-a-watt

I don't remember the specifics and don't have the link, but you are right - it was very much NOT a 1 for 1 in percentage from actual power to LOR % use

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