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Is it just me or does the pricing look great for the coming pre order? Unless I am mistaken on what I have bought in the past and in need of again (100 bulb C6 in Red, Pure White, Green and Blue and 100 bulb M5 in Pure White) Without looking at past invoices and going from memory these prices seem better. Does anyone else feel this way?

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I have to agree, the prices for this pre-sale are a lot more attractive then the past few years. I have kept the price sheets for the 2008 and 2009 pre-sales just so I could see the trends in LED light pricing from year to year. As an example this was the past pre-sale pricing for 50 count C6 Warm White lights.

2008 - $9.43 per string or $113.16 per 12 string case

2009 - $9.50 per string or $114.00 per 12 string case

2010 - $7.50 per string or $90.00 per 12 string case

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when does this order usually take place? meaning how much time do i have to get my 2010 layout done? does this usually go through in like feb or march?

is there a mailing list to get on so i dont forget and miss it?

-Christopher

You can go to www.creativedisplays.com and sign up for our mailing list. The sale will start the first of January and go thru January maybe a week or two in February but that is it. I place my orders early for delivery in May/June.

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To upgrade our mega tree to LED 5mm would be.... $1088... umm, no?!

$1088 vs $31.80 for the 90% off walmart minis...

We could replace all of our mega tree lights 34 times at that price....

In what decade are we ever going to see pricing that really makes it feasable to replace conventional minis? And get away from the all the manufacturing issues? Not to whine but how long have LEDs been around? And how many years have mfrs had to get it right and get costs down?

Meh... I'm getting really tired of hearing "next year"...

< end rant >

(and yes I realize this is ~23% less than last year... it's still no where near feasible for anyone having a budget previously in the realm of incandescent minis)

Edited by RiscIt
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And get away from the all the manufacturing issues? Not to whine but how long have LEDs been around?

Is it as much the issue of manufacturing of the LEDs or the controllers? All the controllers out today were designed to work with incandescents - not LEDs. When are we going to get away from this crazy idea of building boxes that switch A/C for a product that is DC? I wish everyone (LOR/AL/DL/etc) would get together and just design standards for DC LED strings and DC controllers designed for those strings. Safer, cheaper, better fades....

This is like putting bias-ply tires on a Ferrari.

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Is it as much the issue of manufacturing of the LEDs or the controllers? All the controllers out today were designed to work with incandescents - not LEDs. When are we going to get away from this crazy idea of building boxes that switch A/C for a product that is DC? I wish everyone (LOR/AL/DL/etc) would get together and just design standards for DC LED strings and DC controllers designed for those strings. Safer, cheaper, better fades....

This is like putting bias-ply tires on a Ferrari.

I am no economist, but I am pretty sure the fact that controllers switching AC (and there are DC controllers out there) has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of LEDs.

Based on my unscientific review of shelf placement, it appears that LED's are certainly gaining in popularity. We are still probably years away from affordable LED's.

It's a budget stretch, but I have been slowly switching to LEDs. What I can't stand is that so far, they are not lasting much longer than incans.

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are there any samples of this product I can buy? id like to test a couple different types to see how many I will need for coverage.. and get them hopefully while my display is up tjis season.. that will help me determine how many I order..

im hoping this can go into feb as far as possible.. there are some layout questions for my 010 display that I wont have answered till then...

I have come to the realization though that I need to begin conversion... that or I am going to need to have my electric service upgraded at the house and run more circuits...

ive probably only got another 20-30 amps that I could add without being concerned about power... that said.. I am running a Hybrid HVAC system and always could run it gas heat mode as opposed to heat pump for the seasons.. but id rather just begin pulling less on the display... certain elements of mine will be incandescent for as long as I can buy them.. but other elements can and do need to dwitch to LED...

im looking at dropping 1000 - 1500 bucks on this buy and really want to know which are the right lights to order.. so id like to get a couple strings... where can I order samples?

-Christopher

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Paul,

I saw a few other requests for Green and Red Icicles, I would also like to request the pure white ones as well. I need all LED icicles and need White and Blue, the blue is covered but you are only doing the soft white LED, why is that?, and why not any other icicle colors?

Also,

How are the payments going to be handled? Do we pay for the order 100% upfront, or is 1/2 now (well when it starts) and the remaining 1/2 before they are shipped?

Thanks

Patrick

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Paul,

I saw a few other requests for Green and Red Icicles, I would also like to request the pure white ones as well. I need all LED icicles and need White and Blue, the blue is covered but you are only doing the soft white LED, why is that?, and why not any other icicle colors?

Also,

How are the payments going to be handled? Do we pay for the order 100% upfront, or is 1/2 now (well when it starts) and the remaining 1/2 before they are shipped?

Thanks

Patrick

Half with order and balance when shipped.

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I am no economist, but I am pretty sure the fact that controllers switching AC (and there are DC controllers out there) has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of LEDs.

That you are correct about. My point wasn't as much the cost (though it would be cheaper if they switched to DC to drive the strings) but about the quality and reliability. When was the last time you saw a topic on PC that read "Can't get my incandescents to fade properly" or "My incandescents keep getting fried - why?" There aren't those posts because the AC controllers were designed for that. Switching to DC is just a smarter route (someone feel free to tell me why I'm wrong on this).

Based on my unscientific review of shelf placement, it appears that LED's are certainly gaining in popularity. We are still probably years away from affordable LED's.

Product placement on a shelf has nearly nothing to do with PC people. How many PC people are even purchasing a majority of their lights in season? Not too many I suspect. PC people are not your parents that throw a few strings of lights on the bushes and head back inside to watch the game. So, one would assume they would be willing to adopt a different standard than "normal" AC driven LED lights. And to some degree they already do - ever seen a box at wal-mart with the words "full wave" or "fully dimmable" - nope, because "normal" people don't care. That's the whole reason CDI even exisits - because regular LED's are junk.

It's a budget stretch, but I have been slowly switching to LEDs. What I can't stand is that so far, they are not lasting much longer than incans.

As RiscIT stated in his post - it's really hard to make a case for LED's right now unless you have some extenuating circumstance such as the inability to pull enough power. I purchased over BlackFriday 25,000 lights for $225 - if I were to have purchased those (5mm/100ct) in LED it would have cost me $3,125 (@ $12.50). For $2,900 I can have a temporary power meter set, pay for all the power for the entire season, purchase the necessary power distribution system and STILL have ~$1,900 left over.

Sure, one day we'll all have LED's and they'll be $2 a box and they'll work great. That day just isn't here yet (maybe it will come when the figure out how to make good CFL's also).

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At the risk of taking things further off topic...

Why don't we have standard DC LEDs and start using LOR DC boards? If that's the overhead, and we have DC boards available, why the heck not start making LEDs for that application?

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Why don't we have standard DC LEDs and start using LOR DC boards? If that's the overhead, and we have DC boards available, why the heck not start making LEDs for that application?

Yep - as was suggested:

http://forums.planetchristmas.com/showpost.php?p=410245&postcount=39

DC $119:

http://store.lightorama.com/cmdedcca.html

AC $219:

http://store.lightorama.com/ctcotrbowihe.html

Even with a slight redesign to include a DC power source it would still be cheaper...

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the deal is that i venture to say that 99% of the christmas lights sold worldwide are people that toss a few extension cords on the ground and string some lights on the gutters... for someone to make special DC powered strings of LED's would still cost the same for the mere fact the quantity of DC powered sales would be low compared to AC....

sure the control boards are cheaper.. but good luck if you start hooking up 20 PC power supplies to drive your DC boards.. all those switchers together.. yeah gonna cause lots of Issues.. so then you have get hold of a real Nice rectifier / power supply unit to drive these new DC LED's.. good quality true DC non switcher supplies arent cheap....

as well as factor in the loss we would all take by selling our existing LOR controllers.. cant sell them for new price..

at that point its just easier cheaper just to have paul send me $2000 of AC LED lights and be done with it..

-Christopher

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dmoore - I wasn't suggesting new DC controllers.. I know we have them. I'm saying that since we do have them, and supposedly most of the added cost of LED lights is the AC adaptations required, then specialty vendors like Paul and Travis should probably start offering DC native LEDs.

eldoradoboy's comments just above this are certainly factors, however.

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for someone to make special DC powered strings of LED's would still cost the same for the mere fact the quantity of DC powered sales would be low compared to AC....

I'm not completely sure of that. I know someone that had custom DC LED strings with four channels of color, 100 LEDs made in china for $6 a string (less the connector). I think this was for an order of 1k strings. Completely custom and still they are cheap.

sure the control boards are cheaper.. but good luck if you start hooking up 20 PC power supplies to drive your DC boards.. all those switchers together.. yeah gonna cause lots of Issues.. so then you have get hold of a real Nice rectifier / power supply unit to drive these new DC LED's.. good quality true DC non switcher supplies arent cheap....

You don't need 20 "PC power supplies" - for the level of LED lights were are talking about, a simple transfomer built INTO the controller would power the lights - so ONE plug to the controller.

as well as factor in the loss we would all take by selling our existing LOR controllers.. cant sell them for new price..

That's if you don't own LED's now. When I finally move to LED, it will be with a system like this and I don't mind paying a few bucks to purchase cheap controllers. The days of $200 controllers are numbered, if you don't see $40 (or less) controllers with LEDs in the next few years I'll be really suprised. Plus, any controller would be backwards compatible with the LOR protocol, so you could continue running your "old" controllers along with DC controlled LED strings.

at that point its just easier cheaper just to have paul send me $2000 of AC LED lights and be done with it..

-Christopher

Far be it for me to question the status quo....

Edited by dmoore
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dmoore - I wasn't suggesting new DC controllers.. I know we have them. I'm saying that since we do have them, and supposedly most of the added cost of LED lights is the AC adaptations required, then specialty vendors like Paul and Travis should probably start offering DC native LEDs.

Actually I think you do need new DC controllers. With a "standardized" plug used for DC lights, they could be plugged in just like all other lights. The controller would supply the power and only the controller would require AC power. People nearly always want to preserve their current investment, often at the sake of advancement and Eldoradoboys's comments are in that line of thinking. If we always though this way we'd still have standard def TV's, computers running DOS and phones with cords.

Think - if you were designing from scratch today, would you build an AC controller to control DC lights?

eldoradoboy's comments just above this are certainly factors, however.

They are if you think with the current mind-set of AC to DC. Not if you think about what will be coming down the road.

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