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TheBigE

LSP vs LOR S2

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I understand what you are saying, but LSP does let you change timings easily within a specific area and they are very open to making changes. One thing that I have noticed is that if you have a suggestion that will better the program they will do everything they can to get it out in the next update or so.

Sounds good. Like I said earlier in the thread, I need to just download it and try it, if I'd ever get some free time :)

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Sounds good. Like I said earlier in the thread, I need to just download it and try it, if I'd ever get some free time :)

Good Luck with that!;):giggle: I have forgotten what free time is!:o

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the entire debate is going to contniue on like the old question of "LOR or AL?"

each accomlishes the same task in different ways with different tools. The evolution of both software platforms will be good for all of us as the competition will drive LOR to more substantial updates and LSP to creating a more stable platform

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the entire debate is going to contniue on like the old question of "LOR or AL?"

each accomlishes the same task in different ways with different tools. The evolution of both software platforms will be good for all of us as the competition will drive LOR to more substantial updates and LSP to creating a more stable platform

Actually this thread has stayed on-topic, polite, and informative (so far!). I definitely agree that competition is great for us, the end-consumer. We get the best products when two viable companies try to make their product the best. For example, the past year has seen more features added to LOR than any year I can remember, other than when S2 first came out. Not sure if this is related to the emergence of LSP and Aurora (as well as Vixen) but it's an interesting phenomenon.

Philip since you're one of the few who's actually used both products to a large degree, you probably have one of the more qualified opinions here...

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Good information and a very civil discussion.

One thing that has not been talked about much is a comparison between the scheduling capability of both programs. I have to admit that I do not have a full knowledge of LOR S2 scheduling as I used it in its very basic sense in 2009. From my use in 2009 I was able to benchmark that LOR S2 did not have a very simple method to alter the times on a given night. Not saying it could not do it, rather it was more cumbersome to complete the change.

Things like background sequences, startup and shutdown options as well as some discussion on the LSP vs. LOR scheduling would be also be helpful for me.

Thanks

Erik

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All I meant by the comparison is that the debate will continue to come up over and over

I've tried to stay out of this for a bit and let it play out. Yes I have use both and really like both software suites.

LOR...

- resembles a typical Microsoft look which makes people comfortable with it before they even start using it

- is earlier to learn

- has more current users to answer questions

- is a very stable program that will run on a very basic computer

- uses tracks for channel organization

- has a basic pizelated visualization screen (requires more time to setup)

- tracks can have independent timings

- setting up your channels can be quickly and easily done w/ the channel property grid

- has more ways to automatically setup timings

- controlls all LOR products plus a little of the DIY stuff

LSP

- has a look all of its own

- has a steeper learning curve

- had many unique sequencing click and drag shortcuts

- requires a more powerful pc to run the sequencer and show

- uses virtual controllers for channel organization

- has a more advanced "drawn" visualization screen

- virtual controllers share the same timing marks

- setting up channels requires more time,effort, and mouse clicks

- has a real time audio scrubbing (I still don't know how to use this properly)

- controlls just about every piece of hard ware out there

both supprt video sequencing, DMX, and RGB

LSP handles the RGB aspect easier on the back end, but you still have to assign a pixel to three channels and red it up for each color, but the rendering is easier with the color picker which automatically knows the color values to mix to create other colors

LOR can do the same thing, but you have to know the % values to use for each RGB to create a desired color. It's not too difficult but requires more effort

LSP has a big dog and pony show piece of software with tons of cool features like Wii control, additional DMX tools, and voice command sequencing.

The issue that LSP faces is that people coming off of LOR have a steeper learning currve because you have to "unlearn" your way of thinking to create a sequence. The software is not as intuitive and much "buggier"

Many updates doesn't mean more features, it means they are fixing bugs and existing problems. They are a very reactive business in that they add user requests pretty quickly and then have to go back and fix things because they aren't 100% at initial release.

LOR has been ver pro-active in that they do thier beta testing with the hardcore users and make sure things work like they want before a public update.

All of this said, everytime a newbie asks "LOR of LSP?" I tell the guy with no preconcieved notion of sequencing to give LSP a shot first.

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since I haven't used the LSP scheduler or run a show, I can't asnwer how they compare on that end.

It is pretty simple with LOR though

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Phillip,

Great summary and I think was it needed. It does not take much reading in PC to realize that both have advantages, moreover, there does not appear to be a fanatical following on either that tends to turn post like these into flame wars. My hope was to create a list much like you had posted and some good discussion to help people make a decision.

I did find it very hard to piece together (until you posted) a concise list for both programs. All I could really tell is that when I made a choice, I need to stick to the throughout this year. It just seems that trying to backup and shift to the other program can be a bit troublesome.

Any thoughts on the scheduling aspect of the two software applications? Also, can you create a sequence in LSP and convert it to LOR? Anyone use LSP with a Mac (via Parallels or boot camp)

Erik

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In LOR, you can normally get away with just setting up a weekly schedule, since most of us don't need more customization than that (for example, I have the same times Su-Th, slightly longer on Friday and Sat. There's also the option for a daily schedule, which totally overrides the weekly schedule if anything is scheduled for that day. So if you wanted, for example, to run extended hours on Christmas day, you could set up a daily schedule for that day and it would be used instead of whatever would have normally happened on the daily schedule.

Since I'm never gone for more than a day or three during display season, I simply just tweak the weekly schedule to meet my needs. It's easy, although the interface is a bit clunky. The good news, though, is it's very reliable, especially now that recent versions added the error log so that if a sequence gets skipped (for example) you know exactly why, as well as the exact starting and ending times that everything gets played throughout the evening.

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Good information and a very civil discussion.

One thing that has not been talked about much is a comparison between the scheduling capability of both programs. I have to admit that I do not have a full knowledge of LOR S2 scheduling as I used it in its very basic sense in 2009. From my use in 2009 I was able to benchmark that LOR S2 did not have a very simple method to alter the times on a given night. Not saying it could not do it, rather it was more cumbersome to complete the change.

Things like background sequences, startup and shutdown options as well as some discussion on the LSP vs. LOR scheduling would be also be helpful for me.

Thanks

Erik

In my opinion this is where LOR excels. I do like LOR scheduling better thank LSP, but LSP has been working on it.

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In addition to what Tim said, you can even schedule different shows on the same day. Like Tim, I setup the weekly schedule. For Mon - Wed, my display is static; no music and the house changes colors every two or three minutes. On Thurs - Sun, my lights come at 5:00pm, but it is the "static" show until 6:30. At 6:30, I run an animated show until 10pm. At 10pm, the aimated show ends and the static show begins again until 11 or 11:30 (not sure which). During the static shows, there is a message that repeats every 30 seconds with the animated show times.

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I use both and am finding that I like using both..

1] I find the beat wizard in LOR S2 to be more accurate and precise for songs that have a single tempo than in LSP.

2] imports are getting better with every release.. I find I dont lose timings if i bring in a skeletel timing model from LOR S2 into LSP..

3] the RGB matrix editor is great for sequencing things like my CCR's, and eventually my DMX Pixels...

4] my sequencing time factore is much higher with LSP than with LOR S2, however I can do more comlex sequences with LSP. I find for simpler sequences the LOR S2 is MUCH easier to do.. but if I am involving complex chases, wierd timing grids for certain sections, sound activated portions, etc that LSP helps out greatly...

its ability to store patterns that are frequently used is nice.

question: dont I still need an enttec USB to DMX adapter ($150) to use DMX with LSP? as opposed to the $250 iDMX for LOR S2?

-Christopher

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LOR will run D-light hardware as well./QUOTE]

Mostly... LOR S2 does not support ramping fades and ramping shimmers on d-light hardware. d-light introduced their ramping fades/shimmers before LOR and the protocol isn't the same.

According to the website they also run X10, DIO cards, and dasher devices.

LSP runs X10 also. DIO and dasher are really old legacy stuff from the 90's.

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question: dont I still need an enttec USB to DMX adapter ($150) to use DMX with LSP? as opposed to the $250 iDMX for LOR S2?

You could use the Entec pro or you could use the Lynx dongle which is a DIY copy for around $35.

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LOR will run D-light hardware as well./QUOTE]

Mostly... LOR S2 does not support ramping fades and ramping shimmers on d-light hardware. d-light introduced their ramping fades/shimmers before LOR and the protocol isn't the same.

LSP runs X10 also. DIO and dasher are really old legacy stuff from the 90's.

I could be wrong, but I believe that was actually fixed in the last firmware update. My entire show runs D-Light. I know the D-Light hardware handles LEDs differently through shimmers and twinkles, but I don't use them all that often so it's not that big of a deal to me.

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Mostly... LOR S2 does not support ramping fades and ramping shimmers on d-light hardware. d-light introduced their ramping fades/shimmers before LOR and the protocol isn't the same.

The protocol is the same, it's the firmware that's different. But at any rate, I seem to remember Dan being very up front a couple years ago with the notion that if S2 ever limited the functionality of D-Light controllers (which he refers to as LOR controllers, as he regards LOR-compatible controllers to be LOR controllers), then LOR would issue firmware for "other manufacturer's" controllers as well. I haven't heard of this coming to pass though. Anybody actually try S2 shimmer/twinkle ramps driving D-Light controllers?

I know a few folks that frequent other forums and do hybrid installs, so I can ask over there and report back.

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I really enjoy the weekly LSP updates that tie up my PC when least expected that then end in a nice error message:

"bad secret token"

and no update :rolleyes:

I have inquired more than once about purchase of an upgrade from "basic" level, but have never received a response.

Just my personal experience... but these 2 things alone have prevented me from seriously considering LSP as anything more than a curiosity.

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The protocol is the same, it's the firmware that's different.

Naturally the firmware is different but the issue is that the protocol is different between S2 and the d-light controller. d-light wrote their own "extension" to the LOR protocol, before S2 came out. Then when S2 came out, LOR added the ramping shimmer/fades which worked off another "extension" that LOR added to their protocol. The two protocols are different. When I asked Darryl about it, he seemed to indicate that d-light wouldn't be adding the LOR extension to their firmware.

Going forward, the "LOR" protocol will start to have more and more of these "additions" by other vendors and it's only going to get more complicated.

Anybody actually try S2 shimmer/twinkle ramps driving D-Light controllers?

No need to - I learned about it when I sequenced a number of ramping fades/shimmers on my arches which were d-light controllers and they didn't work properly (using S2). Once replaced with the LOR controllers, it works as expected.

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Guest Lightzilla

I really enjoy the weekly LSP updates that tie up my PC when least expected that then end in a nice error message:

"bad secret token"

and no update :rolleyes:

I have inquired more than once about purchase of an upgrade from "basic" level, but have never received a response.

Just my personal experience... but these 2 things alone have prevented me from seriously considering LSP as anything more than a curiosity.

I have to admit that those "bad secret token" error messages do get annoying. LSP has a update, click, it begins to load all the way and you think maybe today is my lucky day, but..........the dreaded "bad secret token" error messages appears for the 3rd time in a week or something along those lines.

Like the Blue screen of death is for a computer, the dreaded "bad secret token" is for LSP.

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I have to admit that those "bad secret token" error messages do get annoying. LSP has a update, click, it begins to load all the way and you think maybe today is my lucky day, but..........the dreaded "bad secret token" error messages appears for the 3rd time in a week or something along those lines.

Like the Blue screen of death is for a computer, the dreaded "bad secret token" is for LSP.

The "Bad Secret Token" is a pain, but I think that they have that fixed with their new server. I use the FTP download from their web site to do all of my updates now and have had no problems updating my software that way.

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Whatever PC software you choose, you will be able to control more lights with your new controllers purchased at the LOR inventory reduction sale that just has been announced...

Edited by B_Regal78

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I learned about it when I sequenced a number of ramping fades/shimmers on my arches which were d-light controllers and they didn't work properly (using S2). Once replaced with the LOR controllers, it works as expected.

Hmmmmm. Good thread. Though this is a deal breaker for me in regards to purchasing LOR-S2, as being able to fade shimmers/twinkles is one of those "must have" features. I wonder when this quietly came to pass.

So I suppose that in order to use fully utilize LOR-S2 with D-Light controllers, it now either rests with D-Light changing their firmware to accommodate the change in the LOR protocol, or for LOR to issue firmware for D-Light controllers (as promised in this post over at the LOR Forums nearly two years ago).

BTW--this is a little off topic, but to be fair, there are reasons to purchase LOR controllers over D-Light, and Dan details them in his post in this thread at the LOR Forums. Not like the decision to go with LSP/Aurora/S2 software isn't complicated enough. :eek:

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